Amtrak Responsible for Pedestrian Deaths?

Trains Magazine General Discussion
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Another court is considering holding Amtrak responsible for the deaths of two girls who trespassed onto the railroad. Read the details of the story below and see what you think.

"Lawsuit in train deaths is beating the odds
By Nancy Bartley

It was a bright, sunny afternoon when three girls on spring break set off down the trail flanking the Green River in Kent.

As generations of children did before them, on April 20 six years ago, sisters Rebecca and Rachel Marturello and Rebecca’s best friend, Zandra Lafley, climbed up the bank onto two sets of railroad tracks and walked onto the aging black trestle that spans the river, past a sign reading “Danger keep off bridge.”

Rebecca, 14, was nearly across the trestle when she heard the whistle and saw the Amtrak train bearing down on them. She shouted a warning to the others and sprinted a few feet, leaping to safety. Rachel, an 11-year-old with cerebral palsy, and Zandra, 13, turned back and tried to run along the unevenly spaced ties where they could see the river beneath them, straining to reach the end of the confining trestle.

They leaped onto the adjoining track and then in apparent confusion, crossed back onto the path of the oncoming Amtrak train.

The deaths of the two girls are the basis of a wrongful-death lawsuit against what the victims’ families call Amtrak’s “corporate culture of tolerance.” They want to hold the railroad accountable for the accident and force it to set standards to help avoid other train-pedestrian fatalities, especially among children.

To do so, the families face a longstanding practice of state and federal transportation agencies and Amtrak that frees train engineers from responsibility for trespassers’ deaths, no matter the circumstances.

The state has no guidelines for engineers to prevent hitting pedestrians. Amtrak requires only that an engineer sound a warning signal if someone is on the tracks. The assumption is t

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I did not read the full text of this piece, but I feel that Amtrak should NOT be held responsible for these kids deaths. I would argue that any kid who is 14 years old is old enough to know better than to tresspass on railroad property, but then there are a lot of people out there who lack common sense. People need to be accountable for their own actions, and there are a lot of brainless wonders out there.

CANADIANPACIFIC2816

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I’d say something, but just about everything that could be said about pedestrians being hit by trains has already been said in one thread or another.

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Yea Larry, I could tear this one apart but why bother. Playing chicken…uh who’s fault is that? Not Amtraks. Clear cut case of denial on the parents part, possibly drug induced.

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OK this is going to ruffle a few feathers but…

Wheres the accountablilty of this 14 year old girl taking a girl with cerebral palsy onto a freaking RR bridge!!! Even walking PAST a warning sign!!!

Its always someone elses fault [V]

What the bloody hell are the RRs supposed to do?

Fence and gate a million miles of track?
Post armed guards every 100 feet?

If you fence it, people will climb over the fences, fall and blame the RRs for putting the freakin fences in!

Post guards, and people will try to sneak past at between them and then scream bloody murder about their rights being trampled when their caught, ticketed and/or arrested.

This is getting to be a nation of Idiots![:(!]

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While I agree that it is extremely irresponsbile (and incredibly stupid) to be playing chicken with a train, I can somewhat see where the plaintiff is coming from. They’re trying to prove that the engineer did not do everything in his power to prevent the accident. Slowing the train from 79 to 65 was a good start, but couldn’t he have slowed more? Sixty-five is still pretty fast…according to the article it would still take about a quarter mile to stop. Kids are unpredicatable…that’s why there are speed zones around schools. And is there a reason Amtrak policy doesn’t specify the application of emergency brakes? Should Amtrak have to follow the rules of the freight railroad whose tracks they are using? Was sounding the horn enough? Since most courts don’t know much about trains, they’ll probably equate it to an automobile vs. pedestrian accident. There are a lot of unanswered questions.

That being said, I hate the argument of the girl at the end of the story: “We were just kids.” That doesn’t give you carte blanche to do what you want. Also, where were the parents? I don’t know about you, but if I had an 11 year old daughter with cerebral palsy, I sure as heck wouldn’t allow her to play on the train trestle.

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I won’t say much, but the DA should look into pressing charges ON THE PARENTS of endangerment and gross negligence of their children for knowingly not caring about them being on the train tracks and thinking its the railroads’ job to look out for them…

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Pothumously give the kids the Darwin Award.

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It’s the plaintiffs trial lawyer’s fault. Followed by the parents.

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Found this in another topic and had to post it:

http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/05/4rails.html

The contrast between these this article and the one posted above is astounding. One thing touched on (early) is that trains don’t have steering wheels. While you and I will think “well, duh” you’d be surprised how many people out there think they do. They actually think a train will swerve. How, I have no idea.

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To be honest, I couldn’t agree more with everything that is said here. Me being the person that I am and not knowing ALL that an engineer has going on; I would have slowed more when I came upon the girls and I would have blown that horn until I couldn’t see them anymore. He had to previous incidents where fatalities occurred so I would think that he would not want history to keep repeating itself and avoid at all cost.

But still, I don’t believe that anyone should get away with trespassing. I remember when I was a boy, I knew exactly when I was trespassing and I knew exactly that there is always danger no matter what when I am in a place that I shouldn’t be. So

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A goodly part of the problem here does have to do with the legal system; lawyers going for the gold, and encouraging plaintiffs in suits which should never be brought, in part, but in part, also, a system which asks lay persons to understand and make judgements on technical issues about which they have no knowledge.

As to part of ICXC’s comment, I would like to point out that in many instances pulling the plug on a train is not exactly what you want to do, particularly a passenger train. You will almost certainly injure at least a few of your passengers, if not actually kill one or two, and this is regarded as counter-productive in some circles. At most, you may just get some slack action (yes, even with passenger equipment) at the wrong time at the wrong place, and put the train on the ground – also regarded as undesirable.

We are, as a society, seeming to seek some sort of utopia, where everyone is protected against every form of ill and evil. It can’t happen that way, but we are going to destroy ourselves if we keep trying for it.

OK – I’ll get off my soapbox now, too!

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jchnhtfd,

Thanks for the information about why an emergency stop may be deterimental. That is useful information…something that would’ve been appropriate to see in the newspaper story. I’ve been a casual railfan for years and will be the first to admit I don’t know everything about the operation of trains. Would the fact that it’s a Talgo train make much of a difference in the slack?

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As a member of the media that “sucks,” let me say I agree with most of the above comments. Let me add that I believe the author of this story had a clear bias against Amtrak, which is bad journalism.

The slant shows in the lead paragraphs and the conclusion. What point is she trying to make by saying past generations of children have played on the same trestle? Is the author implying that Amtrak is responsible for the survivors’ post-tragedy health problems and drug use? By pulling selected statistics, she suggests that train engineers routinely run people over and feel no remorse (“One engineer out of Spokane has been involved in 17 fatalities.”) How does THAT relate to this story? Why didn’t she attempt to add some balance and point out how the engineer will have to live with this the rest of his life because these parents did not properly control their offspring, by telling them railroad trestles are not playgrounds? Why did she not point out the children were at an age where they should have known better? (She did use the quote “We were just kids,” though.)

This tragedy is just another case of guilty-feeling parents wanting a court to tell them they weren’t responsible for their childrens’ deaths. I do not agree. The only thing that makes this case newsworthy is that it won its first appeal.

I’ll just stay tuned.

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I find it hard to believe that upwards of 200 people were killed in one state in a fourteen-year period, especially if they were all supposed to be pedestrians.

Does this figure appear inflated or misstated to anyone else?

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That’s an average of 14.25 per year. Not all that high for a large state. Lots of Darwin Award candidates.

And on the other note: the one mother went BACK to drug use?

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Are you crazy? That would require the of logic! -gasp-

I agree with pretty much everything on here. Is it your fault if you post signs “warning: animal traps in use. no tresspassing” (I don’t even know what liability laws are concerning situations like that, but it’s just for the sake of analogizing) and some idiot decided that he/she needs to cut through your property? Of course not, you provide plenty of warning, the person ignores the warning, they should pay the consequences…[V]

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The Stupid People who cross in front of the Train are at fault. The Railroad’s shouldn’t be held liable for Stupid People’s Action.

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All there is to say has been said; People will continue to be stupid.

My 2 cents
Re : newspaper article (second one)

Amazing how two different views can portray either the engineer as the guilty one, or the potential victim.

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Unfortunately as long as more and more people refuse to take individual responsibility, we’re going to see more frivolous lawsuits just like this. Like the story said, ultimately the girls were tresspassing and responsible for their own deaths. It’s a shame it happened but the facts are the facts. They were old enough to know right from wrong and they had no regard for their own safety. If they didn’t know what could happen, then shame on their parents for not teaching them.