As some of you may know, it looks as though Amtrak may receive a fairly substantial monetary boost from Congress. Viewed in combination with the fact that I hate airline travel so much that I vow not to fly any distance shorter than 400 miles, due to gross airline inefficiency, and more than $4.00 per gallon gas, suddenly, the decision to keep Amtrak on life support during all of those years of inefficiency seems like pure governmental brilliance.
If someone realized in 1969 that the day would come when airline travel would become less than reliable, highways would become overly congested, gas would be prohibitively expensive and that someone proactively determined that it would be far more cheap to keep Amtrak on life support for 40 years than start from scratch in 2008, I would really, really, really like to shake that someone’s hand.
Then again, it would not take a lot to convince me that this was just dumb luck facilitated by political motivations that had nothing to do with such circumspection.
Gabe
P.S. By way of public announcement/mea culpa: I WAS WRONG. Five years ago, I think I would have at the very least been in favor of breaking Amtrak up if not eliminating it altogether. I am now very glad that my fellow myopiates did not have their way.
P.P.S. For those of you who fly as much as I do: Does anyone else recognize any similarity between the passenger rail industry in 1967 and the airline industry of today? The Sword of Damocles is about to drop . . .
It could be argued that what has been preserved of “value” is an access agreement with the Class Is that is seriously underpriced relative to the freight value of the same slot. There are not many that are enamored with the culture and methods of the organization. David Gunn fought hard to preserve the organization – it was his fear that once it was gone it would never come back – but I think he always tempered that with his expectation that he would be given the authority to hammer the culture into something much more “railroad-like” and a lot less “government-like.” As we know he was not given that authority and when he pushed the issue, was fired.
Amtrak is still a Turtle, and we need Cheetahs, French German or Japanese Cheetahs, running on their own trails, not sharing that trail with Elephants and Hippos.
Unfortunatly the same stupidity that gave us a national energy policy that places the lions share of policy based on air and road travel and gave tax breaks to Hummer buyers, is still in place and that same stupidity still hold sway over large swaths of our government, so while maybe Amtrak might get a fix, it still needs a major revisioning of its purpose. I doubt those addicted to lobbiest funding will be so ready to forgo that cash-heroen drip IV of cash to de-emphisis airlines and road interests, even if they start falling like flies on a hot summer day, and we’ll still get the “must save the wretched mess we call the airline industry” aurguments, just wait, these same Washington idiots who pose this will also be calling to axe Amtrak to feed the airline pig, just wait, you’ll see.
BTW average gas price here today?
$4.50+
Yeap, Dubya is right, we are addicted to oil, and he’s the biggest pusher on the block
I respectfully disagree with the need for German, French, or Japanese equipment running on their own right of ways here. Not gonna happen. Wayyyyyy prohibitively expensive to build up that kind of infrastructure from the ground up at the drop of a hat.
Rather, what we NEED (and certainly more realistic) are genuine public-private partnerships with the Class 1’s to upgrade mainlines in key corridors where there is an obvious need and desire for rail passenger service; whether it be in terms of upgrading single/double-tracked lines or adding in a third track to increase capacity. Just as important, there has to be a real “attitude adjustment” among some of the Class 1’s WRT how they operate Amtrak trains on their respective networks; particularly at UP and CSXT which are both horribly anti-Amtrak. If incentives are provided that would encourage the Class 1’s to give passenger service PRIORITY over freight (they way it’s SUPPOSED to be) then you’ve got something.
What we need is reliability–ask any regular air line passenger. If US Air bought a plane that travels at Mach 3, I would still fly Continental given a choice.
By extension, show me a reliable, on-time passenger train that moves at 85 mph before you spend 90 times more on something that only provides a 20% increase in service.
Gabe
P.S. As for building new rails, due to NIMBY, it would never get off the ground.
The bill-still in process-is an authorization, and even with a favorable vote on the conference report and an over ride of a Presidential veto, it will still be necessary to extract the cash with an appropriations bill. For those of us want improvements in the service it is a nice first step.
In answer to the question, I vote neither. My answer would be politics or at least political compromise, but please accept this as a generalization. The congressional delegation from the states served by the North East Corridor have been able to make a reasonably strong case for that service. Still, getting the votes for passage required tossing some scraps to the folks from the hinterlands. I think we may also have had an “apple pie” issue. Few in Congress from districts served by Amtrak may have wanted to go home and have to explain the loss of the service.
I must say that I had far-sighted brilliance on the subject, but that and $4.00 was good for a Starbucks.
If AMTRAK is to make greater utilization of the corridors owned by the Class 1’s it would seem that they should build, dispatch and operate and maintain their own individual track and thus minimize interference with the freight business. There would have to be some interface with the freight tracks especially at junctions and for access to cities, but in the open country they could be almost autonomous. And the Class 1’s expenses and operational problems resulting from AMTRAK on their property could be reduced.
Amtrak is going to help no one here. I live in Houston, the 4th largest city in the country. The people that use Amtrak here are either stupid or just don’t have a choice. Amtrak runs through here 3 days a week for each route. All 2 of them. West to San Antonio or east to New Orleans. Going west your options are MWF and theoretically departing at 9:50 pm and arriving in SA at 3:00 am. Your options to go east to New Orleans are TFSu theoretically departing at 6:15 am and arriving at 4:00 pm. I say “theoretically” as these trains AVERAGE 5 hours late. That means sometimes less and sometimes more than 5 hours. Those are worthless times to leave anyways.
It’s a bit over 5 hours to San Antonio. You can drive it in 3. I just did last weekend and my roundtrip was $50 in gas with an average of 30 mpg. I can’t justify Amtrak. It’s about 10 hours to N.O. by train but by car it’s about 6. Again, gas prices still aren’t high enough to justify Amtrak. Not to mention the fact that you’d need a car at either location anyways depending on what you are going to do. At the very least cabs cost money.
Here in the south Amtrak really isn’t an option like it is in the extreme east or west. I wish it was. If their hours and consistency were better, I’d actually ride it just because I like trains rather than as justification for high gas prices. Their times don’t work though. For anything under 400 miles, the car is still my best option. For anything more than that, the plane is still my best option. I’d love to see a high speed rail system but I know good and well that it’s not going to happen in my lifetime and hopefully that’s at least another 50+ years or so.
Keeping Amtrak alive is one thing but keeping certain routes alive means more to me than merely the company’s existence.
Sorry folks, I know my viewpoint isnt shared by many but as long as Amtrak has to share ROW track rights, it doesnt matter if its got the greatest newest equipement on Earth, its always going to be an inconsistant turtle, forever shuffled to secondary importance to the primary movers needs.
If you want to compete with the airlines you have to be able to compete time-wise and route-wise, that means ADDING routes and trains and that means using near air-time competetive HST trains along many of those routes, that also means it requires government support to subsidize price structures to attract riders, it works in many other countries around the world but for some reason its always frowned upon here, because no one here wants to pay the piper, so I say just let people just keep stewing a while longer in their cars burning $4+ (soon $5?) a gallon gas or sitting on the overbooked plane on the tarmac with that soon to be $500 one-way airfares and see how long before the groan becomes a whail becomes an angry scream.
I hate to say it, but I feel like people in this country truely deserve what they are getting right now, as they have been so short sighted for the past 2 decades and they have gotten spoiled bloody rotten by fat cars fueled by cheap gas and cheap travel fueled by cheap airfares also fueled by cheap oil. We learned nothing from the 70’s gas crisis and now its starting up all over again. So now, regardless of the true value of oil or the true levels of avalability, the pushers are upping the price of their Fix, and in doing so are also watching our squirming withdrawal pains knowing we will pay thru the nose to get our gallon of Fix.
Will it go back down in price? maybe it will come back down, for a while, till people will forget about the previous spikes like in '05 and buy more bloatmobiles, until the next spike and the groaning begins all over again…it always goes back up
I’m afraid I have to agree. I hate to think of paying taxes, but an appropriate amount of tax on fuel would have allowed us to build a good transit system instead of giving it all to some dictator in another country. Of course the money would have most likely ended up in the pocket of a politician or his friends. [banghead]
Sorry folks, I know my viewpoint isnt shared by many but as long as Amtrak has to share ROW track rights, it doesnt matter if its got the greatest newest equipement on Earth, its always going to be an inconsistant turtle, forever shuffled to secondary importance to the primary movers needs.
If you want to compete with the airlines you have to be able to compete time-wise and route-wise, that means ADDING routes and trains and that means using near air-time competetive HST trains along many of those routes, that also means it requires government support to subsidize price structures to attract riders, it works in many other countries around the world but for some reason its always frowned upon here, because no one here wants to pay the piper, so I say just let people just keep stewing a while longer in their cars burning $4+ (soon $5?) a gallon gas or sitting on the overbooked plane on the tarmac with that soon to be $500 one-way airfares and see how long before the groan becomes a whail becomes an angry scream.
I hate to say it, but I feel like people in this country truely deserve what they are getting right now, as they have been so short sighted for the past 2 decades and they have gotten spoiled bloody rotten by fat cars fueled by cheap gas and cheap travel fueled by cheap airfares also fueled by cheap oil. We learned nothing from the 70’s gas crisis and now its starting up all over again. So now, regardless of the true value of oil or the true levels of avalability, the pushers are upping the price of their Fix, and in doing so are also watching our squirming withdrawal pains knowing we will pay thru the nose to get our gallon of Fix.
Will it go back down in price? maybe it will come back down, for a while, till people will forget about the previous spikes like in '05 and buy more bloatmobiles, until the next spike and the groaning begins all over again…
You must think that having a government subsidized passenger rail service is a Constitutional right.
There is neither brilliance nor luck involved in the continuation of this tax reciept abyss. Like all other such government beauracracies, it has morphed (perhaps metastasized is a better word?) into an existence of it’s own over time despite it’s inherent worthlessness. It does not and will never reduce Americans’ average fuel consumption, nor does it increase fuel supply. Despite it’s hefty subsidy per passenger, it is still more expensive (not to mention light years slower) than flying. It is far less flexible in terms of routes, boarding hours, coverage, etc than driving or taking a bus.
Amtrak is simply a prime example of a nation that is stuck on stupid.
That and the remark the way Congress works, what was passed was the “authorization” and not the “appropriation”, and there are plenty of ways for the political process to proceed (i.e. fail as it has often gotten our hopes up and let us down).
What impresses me about this thread and others is that here the passenger train advocacy community is at least close to getting a major upgrade to Amtrak, and there are a lot of angry people with their all-caps Internet version of shouting and the multiple exclamation points. We get something we have wanted for years, and what we do is gripe about how it is not enough, it is not HSR, money was spent on planes and cars all these years instead of what we want.
Don Oltmann initiated a thread on what to do with the Amtrak cash infusion headed down the tracks as it were, and it too turned into the usual gripe fest. I think that Don and I are in agreement: if this thing actually and finally comes through, Amtrak has to have something to show for it after the end of 5 years. Otherwise no amount of complaining about the Concrete Lobby, the aviation cabal, the Lack of Political Will, or the shame that our trading partners get to spend money on trains that we only dream about will have any effect.
Part of why I am jaded about passenger train advocacy is that while I am not all that old, I had been there at the very beginning, sending my summer lawn mowing earnings left over from purchasing items for my model railroad to renew my annual membership in Anthony Haswell’s NARP. Ralph Nadar has made his name fighting GM, and Tony Haswell was the Ralph Nadar of the railroad industry who was going to make sure the railroad passenger would get their due. The time was the late 1960
You are correct, if one considers the CURRENT condition of Amtrak.
However, should Amtrak receive sufficient funding, such that it could develop a transpotation SYSTEM that integrated with bus and highway, then perhaps Amtrak could play an important role in this country’s infrastructure. Get funds diverted from the airline industry subsidy, or taken some away from the highway system, or better yet, from the $341 million (yes, million) spent PER DAY on the illegal, immoral, unjustified “War” (actually an illegal occupation of a nation by a foreign power) in Iraq.
Just imagine how much good could have been accomplished by using the money wasted in Iraq and spent instead here at home. Or better yet, don’t imagine…it it just too depressing. Check this out: http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home
What is sufficient funding? Let’s take the view that the “user fees” on gasoline, jet fuel, and airline tickets that provide much of the Federal transportation budget are just that – taxes.
Cars 4 trillion passenger miles 40 billion Federal dollars subsidy rate 1 cent/passenger mile
What is your definition of “sufficient funding.” Were Amtrak funded at the rate of planes, the Amtrak subsidy would be 130 million. Are you proposing that reform? Were Amtrak to get Federal money at the rate of the highway network, the Amtrak subsidy would be less than 50 million a year. Are you proposing this? What is a sufficient funding for Amtrak in your view, and what level of yearly passenger miles would you accomodate with that level of funding?
If we took all of the money from a currently unpopular military campaign in support of a certain foreign government, formed under United Nations mandated elections, we could increase Amtrak from about .1 percent of passenger miles to about 7 percent of passenger miles. Given that Amtrak is 20 percent more fuel efficient than driving and that 40 percent of our oil is used for gas and about 70 percent of our oil is imported, taking that action would save less than 1 percent of the oil we import. Do you think we should take the peace dividend of ending that military campaign and turn around and spend it on a project to reduce our oil imports by 1 percent? Is that a policy you endorse?
The Vision Report proposed spending 10 billion per year on trains over the next 40 years – this would have the effect of expanding Amtrak passenger miles 10-fold. Is this sufficient funding? Do you t
If these monies come through for Amtrak they certainly need to have their priorities in order.
Amtrak including Amtrak California is experiencing a surge in traffic like they only dreamed of 40 years ago. The first problem as I see it is additional equipment. California is probably going to finance and fund their own High Speed Rail system in the November election so that money will not come from the proposed Amtrak windfall.
It will be years before California has that HSR system operating. In the meantime additional California Cars would be the order of the day in our state. The designs have proven themselves and their reliability is better than Superliner11, not to mention their cost. The cars are probably not to everyones liking but they are a proven design. For the western trains and even as replacements from some of the earlier Superliners they would be spendid. It certainly should not be to difficult to design a double deck sleeper using the California Cars.
For the eastern US where clearances are still a problem Amtrak will probably need a new design unfortunately. There is nothing running in the east at the present time other than Acela that is going to bring passengers back to the rails once they ride the older equipment. I personally do not like the fixed consist of Talgos, but inspite of a few problems they have been a major success in the Pacific Northwest. There suspension system has permitted faster train speeds than ever before possible between Vancouver BC and Eugene OR. Now if they would design a low slung diesel to really take advantage of the Talgos potential it would be even better.
New equipment is the highest order of priority for Amtrak once that is accomplished I would like to see joint cooperation on track improvements with the operating roads where possible.
The Superliner 2s were an improvement over the Superliner 1s and the California cars I believe would be an improvement over Superliner 2. I have ridden all three and believe the Ca