Amtrak superliner Question

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

Thinking of purchasing the Superliner Phase IV series I from Walthers; I believe that the number II was developed for better tolerances for aisle space, etc…and if I was to run a 5 car set…how would they be used in the setup…any other input on the phase IV of this series would be great…

eg) coach coach sleeper sleeper coach…???

Thanks in response…Cary

2

I’m an N scaler, and have an Amtrak phase IV train like the one you’re asking about.

The way I run mine is - two P-42s, a baggage car, a coach baggage (smoking car), two coaches, a dining car, a lounge car and two sleepers.

Tracklayer

3

First off is there specific train you’re trying to model?

In general, sleepers where placed at one end of the train or the other, usually not in the middle of the train. This was done to keep the coach passengers from walking through the sleepers.

There are two lines of thought on the placement of sleepers. At the end of the train keeps them away from the noise of locos and makes them close to the beginning of the platfrom when loading at the origination city so that first class passengers don’t have to walk as far as coach.

The line of thought was to place them close to the front so that at arrival they closed to the station. I’ve seen it both ways on Amtrak. When we took the Empire Builder from Seattle to Chicago the sleepers were at the front after the baggage and material handling cars. I’ve also seen them at the end of the train.

Also remember that if you’re going to run sleepers then you need a diner and perhaps a lounge car. Sleeping car passenger also tend to have check bags so a baggage car is needed.

Typical consist could be baggage sleeper diner lounge coach or coach/baggage.

jktrains

4

Hi all,

My question is on the same lines as above.

No pun intended.

Did or does Amtrak (in superliners) have more types of transition cars besides the sleepers.

For example, Walthers only makes the transition sleeper.

That is fine if you are running P-42, baggage, transition sleeper, diner, coaches, lounges,

then I quess another transition something when they are running a private observation car (non-superliner).

Any ideas or pictures?

Thanks

5

Hi all,

Here are three pictures I found of Amtrak transition Superliners.

So far I can only find three types.

Sleeper

dorm

baggage

here are the pictures.

I guess if the consist had an observation or private car (non-Superliner) the sleepers and transition sleeper would be at the end.

But then what about the baggage car (non-Superliner) would it also be at the end? I have never seen this configuration.

6

The first two standard level cars that are in the photos were baggage dormitories that were built for the El Capitan, and ad the cowling later added to operate with the hi level cars. They are standard level at both ends, and have long since been retired from passenger service on Amtrak. They were not considered transition cars.

The other type of car that Amtrak operated as a transition car other than the transition sleepers of today, were the dorm/coach cars (the car in the third pic above). They were ex Santa Fe hi level transition chair cars that had sleeping quarters for the crew built into the front half of the cars, and the other half of the car retained the coach seating for revenue passengers.

7

Thanks for the info.

I could not tell if the baggage/dorm actually had the upper walkthrough.

So how did they walk from single level to upper level without a transition car?

Back to one of my original questions, are there any other types of transition cars Amtrak had besides sleeper and dorm?

One more question.

There seems to be some confusion with the terms Superliner and HILiner cars. What is the difference?

Thanks

8

To start with the difference between the hi level and Superliner cars, the hi level cars were bi level cars built by Budd for the Santa Fe’s all chair El Capitan passenger train. These were built in the 50s, with another batch of hi level chair cars delivered in the early '60s.

The Superliner cars were designed and built specifically for Amtrak, based on the hi level design.

The only transition cars that Amtrak had/has are the coach/dorms and the sleeper transition cars.

As far as how folks went from the upper level to the standard level from the Santa Fe hi level cars was using what is known as a step up/step down, or transition chair car. There was a stair case on one end of the car that went to the standard level. The step up coaches had 68 seats as opposed to the 72 seats of the standard hi level chair cars. There were also some convertible step up cars that were delivered in the '60s, but that is a whole other story.

9

Thanks Smitty,

I figured the difference in the HI level and Superliners were the company that made them and the road destination of the cars.

I know how they actually got from upper level to lower level. Let me rephrase the question.

If a single level car met up with an upper level non transition car, for instance a baggage with a diner, did they just not use the baggage whilst the train was moving.

Let’s also do it this way. This is how I have my Amtrak Superliners consist.

P-42, streamlined baggage, transition sleeper (Super), diner (Super), coach (Super), lounge (Super), lounge (Super)

If i wanted to add a single level observation or private single level car to the end (obviously), I think I would add a coach/dorm transition before the observation. Right?

Because I have not seen a transition sleeper at the front with the strmld baggage and another transition sleeper at the end for the obsevation.

Thanks

10

I don’t believe that passage between private cars and the Amtrak cars are permitted, so having a transition car probably wouldn’t be a concern for the rear of the train. I have seen trains hauling private varnish with a regular Superliner sleeper being the last Amtrak car.

Try this site for some great Amtrak pics… http://adsl-69-213-240-177.dsl.dytnoh.ameritech.net/amtrak/

Edit: I believe that typically the lounge would be consisted next to the diner. Sometimes foks have to wait to get into the diner, so this is a great place to do it!!

11

Thanks Smitty,

I think i had that website at one time.

I did see a couple of pictures where they had a strmlnd baggage with a Superliner Diner (no transition).

I guess they just made a point of not needing to get into the baggage during the train ride.

In a couple of weeks I am taking the Coast Starlight up through Cali., Oregon and Washington.

I will take lots of pictures and let everyone know where they can see them.

Thanks

12

Thanks for all the input guys…I did order two of the Walthers Superliner Coaches today and thinking of running it with the P42 as a Coach/Baggage–Diner–Coach–Coach–Sleeper– (Supers)…would of liked to add a few extra but due to some passenger sidings, this is the most that my set will allow me-(possibly one more)…another question though…if these were run just as commuters…would they not be all Coaches and possibly a Diner and Lounge for these type of runs…reason why I am asking is I am planning on running two sets of passengers with one as the Superliner - one set more of a commuter and the other as more of a long distance set…so as a commuter would my first set work or would I take out the sleeper and put in another Coach or Lounge…

Thanks Again…Cary

13

Cary,

Sleeping cars were run next to Diners. This has been done by railroads for decades. It is done so that sleeping car passengers, consider first class passengers, do not have to walk far and through the coaches to get to the diner.

Commuter trains use completely different equipment than over the road passenger trains. Bi-level commuter cars are specially designed cars, not Hi-level or Superliner cars used in commuter service. I’ve rode both types of cars numerous times and they are completely different and could not be used in purose its not designed for. Bi-level commuter cars or gallery cars have two level of seats but the center of the car is open. This allows the conductor to come through the car and collect tickets from riders on both levels. A Superliner car has two separate floors.

If you want a commuter train check out the walthers bi-level commuter cars.

jktrains

14

Here is an actual car by car consist of the Californai Zephyr from a particular run:

The consist of the California Zephyr circa 1989 was as follows:

1 F40 CHI-SLC
2 F40 "f_
2 MHC CHI-OAK
1 Baggage CHI-OAK
1 Transition Hi-Level (ex-ATSF) coach/dorm CHI-OAK
1 Sleeping Car CHI-OAK
1 Coach/baggage CHI-OAK
1 Coach CHI-OAK
1 Lounge CHI-OAK
1 Dining Car CHI-OAK
1 Coach/baggage CHI-SEA via the Pioneer # 25/26 at SLC
1 Coach CHI-SEA via the Pioneer # 25/26 at SLC
1 Sleeping Car CHI-SEA via the Pionee¤h_
1 Coach/baggage CHI-LAX via the Desert Wind # 35/36 at SLC
1 Coach CHI-LAX via the Desert Wind # 35/36 at SLC
1 Sleeping Car CHI-LAX via the Desert Wind # 35/36 at SLC
1 Hi-Level (ex-ATSF) diner/lounge DEN/LAX via the Desert Wind # 35/36 at SLC

The rear diner/lounge ran through from LAX to DEN during the summer to
accommodate high numbers of passengers requiring food service. At other
times, this car operated SLC to LAX. The food service c´j_
Pioneer, operated SLC to SEA.

Amtrak car types:
M: MHC - Material Handling Car
B: Bagagge, hertiage car
H: ex-ATSF Hi-Level
C: Coach, long distance car with 62 seats upstairs and 15 seats
downstairs
S: Sleeping Car, 10 economy and 5 deluxe bedrooms upstairs and 4
economy and 2 special bedrooms downstairs for a total of 44 people
CL: Cafe Lounge, 22 fixed seats, 12 single rotating seats, and 8
double rotating seats
D: Diner or Dining Car, 18 booths (72 people) with mâitr d’ and
waiters’ area in center, lower level is kitchen
C/B: Coach/Bagagge, can be anywhere in consist, 78 passengers plus
bags, first considered to be a short distance car, but was seen on the
Zephyr by the late 1980s.
A: Amfleet
T: Transition Car
Bx: boxcar other than a MHC
?: unsure of car type