Does any one model Amtrak ? Reading an old article last night on Amtrak and the article stated that they expected to be profitable by “1973” Did they ever make it to being profitable or is this another example of a Government agency just draining our pocket books ?
why can’t we just let the great passenger trains we knew die a noble and timely death and get it over with?
grizlump
Is this an actual question or just a cheap “I hate the government and taxes” shot?
No this is not a "I hate the Government " In fact I have a son in special forces (Gov. military) family in state government school system and they work very hard . I do dislike throwing good money down an endless pit though. Whether it be railroads or any poorly run agency. Back to my question. Is Amtrac making a profit and does anyone model that system ?
The forums usually center on modeling of railroads and not the politics behind them. I’m the first to bash Government spending and waste. But when here I’m usually more interested in watching machines riding on rails. Amtrak is just one (I have an Acela and love it)
I have an HO scale version of the Southwest Chief in the current scheme.
To answer your second question, I believe Amtrak made a profit in about 2002 or 2003. Someone may have more details.
Everyone knows that Amtrak does not make a profit, but not everyone considers that “government waste”. The fire department does not make a profit, either. Nor does the military, which is one of the things that I consider the epitome of “a Government agency just draining our pocket books”.
I have one Amtrak train on my layout.
The Fire department in my town doesn’t cost taxpayers almost nothing. Fund Drives pay for the fire house and equipment. The membership is all Volunteer.
This post is going in a direction not intended. And, no not every one knows whether or not Amtrak, is making or loosing money. I did not, thats why I asked. Nor was this to be a comment on Government. It was more about Amtrak which I find puzzling. I have not really followed Amtrak over the years and I am curouis to what modelers like about it. What their models look like. But instead it seems I have opened a can of worms.
What put the burr under my saddle was your phrase: “or is this another example of a Government agency just draining our pocket books ?”
As far as Amtrak, Sam1 will be happy to tell you exactly how much money Amtrak loses. The subject of the costs comes up in a new thread about once a week and she post a lot of carefully researched numbers in most of them.
I, obviously, believe that Amtrak is a valuable service though I agree that it is very poorly run. I, however, have been in management of a valuable government service in another area, and I am well aware of how politics makes it nearly impossible to run the service effectively. Politicians always spread resources way to thin in an attempt to serve the largest number of voters. The result is that none of the voters are actually well served and so everyone begins to doubt whether the service should be provided.
I do not model Amtrak, but I have one Amtrak train. It doesn’t really fit my era, but the grandchildren wanted it. That is the same reason that I also have Hogwart’s Express and Thomas the Tank Engine.
Nothing wrong with your question although probably more appropriate for the Train Mag forum. No, Amtrak does not make a profit and never will. Neither are any of the passenger systems in the world profitable that I am aware of. Penn Central was not profitable and quite frankly most airlines have been money losers and there have been frequent bankruptcies. The fact remains that hauling passengers is an expensive business and if you charged enough to make a profit no body would pay that high a price.
As to modeling I love passenger trains and think Amtrak could be a great subject. The early rainbow era with mixed equipment to the modern Acela covers a lot of ground. Just need for the northeast corridor a cheap source of catenary.
I have to agree with PheobeVet – if you don’t want to open a can of worms, don’t go throwing phrases like, “…a Government agency draining our pocketbooks…” around. Amtrak was set up to take over the passenger operations of the failing Northeastern – and other railroads were allowed to “opt in”. Amtrak took over operations that were losing gobs of money for their owners, and to expect it to make a profit really isn’t reasonable (the less so because it is a Government-run operation subject to the whims of Congress). In fact, the first Chairman of Amtrak was a General Dynamics executive who’d been “let go”, and several scholars claim that he had an unwritten mandate from President Nixon to fail and get rid of the trains. Very few people on these boards, however, will take issue with the necessity of intercity passenger rail as a
I currently model SCL and New Haven passenger equipment but plan on including early Amtrak. I particularly would like a pair of model SDP40fs, as I’ve ridden behind those giants and had a friend who ran them.
I’m grateful that I got to ride on the Heritage Budd units. Even then, as a teen, I knew I was riding on classic well built cars that served on the Super Chief, The Zephyrs, Empire Builder, Southern Crescent, The Champion, and other famous streamliners. After the rebuilding of 1980-81, Amtrak’s Heritage Budds were sweet rolling cars with riding qualities far better than any Amfleet or Horzon Fleet car in service today. This is why I would prefer to model early to mid era Amtrak (1971-84).
I like GG1s, FL9s, E60CPs, E8s, P30CH’s, SDP40Fs, and F40PHs. Amtrak’s equipment today, while modern and efficient, is to me “bland and antiseptic” ( HH8s, GE “P-somethings”, and Acela’s). Even the few remaining, muscle flexing F40PH’s were demasculated into Cabbage units some years back.
An exception would be the Viewliners, which are quite attractive. But give me an 85ft. Budd classic coach any day. Our Canadian neighbors certainly appreciated their quality and still run theirs. [;)]
I just started putting together a Capitol Limited for my Pittsburgh based layout. I have the P42s on order and am authorized to acquire one piece of equipment per month. My current layout can’t handle the thing, but the long term plans do have space for it.
The Superliners will be out of place if I decide to go another direction and go with a location in Northern VA that sees Viewliners, NER, and VRE service. But Amtrak is firmly in the picture for all my plans.
Amen, Griz!
AMTRAK has NEVER made money for the public and NEVER WILL! It is heavily subsidized by our tax dollars for the benefit of the few riders that are in the so called " Northeast Corridor ". I agree with Griz; let it die. If you had to pay the actual cost to ride from, say, New York to D.C., you’d pay about $100.00 American. I speak the truth. Where am I wrong??
Jimmy
I have a couple of RDC sets that run on mine…one in the AM and one in the evening…
As for all this other blather…megh…
Please keep the political commentary off this forum. Thanks.
Crandell
That is literally $1.90 more than the Northeast Regional costs on a friday night.
Since I model the other side of a rather expansive ocean Amtrak isn’t part of my scheme.
OTOH, the majority of my scheduled passenger trains are run by a Government monopoly. So are the majority of my freight trains. In 1964, the Japan National Railways WERE a Government monopoly - and, for most Japanese, the only game in town.
As for Amtrak profitability, Amtrak is the only transportation service funded by the Federales that has ever been expected to turn a profit. The great privately-run long distance trains became money losers when the mail contracts were taken away. Loss of that de-facto subsidy led directly to the formation of Amtrak.
Chuck Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)