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Here are Amtrak Photo policy and NPPA write up of police procedures |
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Thank you NPPA. Now prove to us that all this lawyer and exec time created a procedure that has anything to do with security. This is a procedure looking for justification. All of railroads are easily accessible. Why does a photograph make it any easier to sabotage?
I suspect the odds of a casual photographer recording terrorist activities are far greater than the odds of this policy stopping a terrorist.
Keep “tilting at those windmills”.
Well, that’s a breath of fresh air. A common sense approach to photographing railroads and railroading.
“Restriced Area” Platforms unless you have a ticket???
It’s been that way in Denver for as long as I’ve been here. Only ticketed passengers are allowed at the gates at the airport, too.
The policy says:
“Photography and video recording within restricted areas are prohibited.”
The subject of a photograph and the position of the photographer can be a considerable distance apart.
Therefore, I wonder if it is OK for a photographer to stand in a public area and take a picture of a subject that is within a restricted area?
The policy is ambiguous on this point.
I would have to assume they’re talking about the photographer at that point. If you think about it, ANY shot would be restricted if they were referring to the subject. The trains are always going to be on the tracks and the tracks are on private (e.g. “restricted”) property.
I believe that your interpretation is correct. However, there have been times in our history when it was permissible to be in a public area and photograph subjects in public areas, but not to photograph trains in private areas from public areas. So there is precedent for what the ambiguity of their rules implies.
In any case, this is a final pronouncement intended to clarify the rules for an activity that has already been subject to a lot of hair-splitting and harassment over the interpretation of what is and is not permissible. Therefore, I would expect the words of the rule to say what they exactly what they mean, and not be open to interpretation.
I see nothing wrong with what they have said. Basically it is stay off the property and you are fine. Since all terrorists since 9/11 have been of Arabic dissent anyone with common sense should be able to tell if a person is a railfan or not. I could see a scenario where a terrorist group would want a picture or two of a specific train if they were targeting it so they could distinguish it from say a commuter train. Use common sense and you shouldn’t have a problem. State that your rights have been violated and you should expect some troubloe.
Yeah, mostly. The part I don’t like is in Section IV: "Amtrak Police and Security personnel may approach photographers and videographers upon a complaint from a member of the public…"
So that means Joe Sixpack, after having his paranoia inflamed by watching the latest BS from Fox “News”, will see the lone railfan as a representative of whatever ‘terrorist’ threat the tv spewed at him. And the poor cops will have to waste their time tracking the poor FRN. Wonderful.
Otherwise, it seems like a reasonable policy.
If that is what they mean, why do they need a rule about it? The trespass laws already cover the issue of restricted versus non-restricted areas.
What is this whole issue about? Is it about gaining intelligence through photography that could be used for terrorism, or is it about trespassing that might occur during the course of photography?
If it is about the former, I would think they would not want somebody standing on a public overpass taking video with a telephoto lens of yards, equipment, and operations.
What kind of platforms do they mean? New York Penn platforms, or small-town whistle stop platforms? And where does the platform start in stations such as Boston South Station? As soon as you’re out of the door from the concourse, or where you actually enter the platform?
I find it rather clear.
It appears that I can take pictures or video from the parking lot, the waiting room, and access ramps and bridges if I don’t have a ticket, and if there is no sign that says something like, “This area is for Amtrak employees, passengers with tickets, and accompanying personnel only.”
If I have a ticket I can take pictures from platform areas and any other area where ticketed passengers normally can go before getting on or after getting off a train, within a reasonable time period.
Otherwise, the policy prohibits photography.
I am somewhat comfortable with the clarity. However, I’m not quite sure what it means at stations that the city, not Amtrak, owns. It says, “on Amtrak property.”
OTOH, I am uncomfortable with the restriction. I interpret it to mean that I can’t walk out onto the platform at a station without a ticket, such as is my habit at Union Station in Dallas, and take pictures.
I’ll have to go read some signs carefully.
I have an NJT or LIRR ticket in NYP snapping away…will I be hauled away?
If you are going to or from the train, you won’t…or so says the policy.
“The platform is a resticted area” is just a lever for them to use where they have to like at Penn Sta, Washington Union Sta, etc. If you’re standing on the platform in Tyrone PA, nobody is going to say “boo”.
Now I have to make a choice…have you ever been to Tyrone, PA or NYP? Been to both myself…seems like there are’nt any NJT Arrows at Tyrone. But there’s no frieght parade at NYP. You’re giving me a choice and I feel Tyrone would be safer. And more scenic. And just as historic. But it’s NS property so would the AMCOPs have juristiction?
Absolutely. Amtrak (or anyone else) cannot legally stop you from doing this.
Yup. Been to both. A better spot in Tyrone is the public road Xing just to the east. But, you are right. It would be an the NS police that would have jurisdiction there. I used to frequent PJ on the NEC back in the low level platform days. I wonder if that would be a relatively “hassle free” zone, even now.
Does the last line of this quote mean that I must do something more suspicious that just take pictures to have a problem?
“Nothing in this policy limits or expands the authority of Amtrak police officers to initiate and pursue investigations, perform a pat down or frisk based upon reasonable suspicion, and/or conduct searches based upon probable cause or any recognized exception to the probable cause requirement in accordance with all legal authority. But the taking of photographs and/or video may not, in and of itself, rise to the level of reasonable suspicion or probable cause”