An electric locomotive project -- mostly daydreaming

Model Railroader Layouts and layout building
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Starting a tangent off a recent thread:

I’m not saying I WOULD or even COULD do this… so let’s not get hysterical, but if… IF…a fella were to set out on an epic quest to build this in HO scale…

…scratchbuilding the body and the grabs and the thing on top (whose word I forget but it starts with a ‘p’ or a ‘t’ and may have ‘graph’ in it), is there any nonbrass HO chassis already in production that would be usable for a “reasonable” modeling of the trucks on this unit?

By “reasonable”, I’m going to have to ask at least half of you to leave the room (and you know who you are), because you won’t be able to stomach the idea of anything that isn’t prototype. But I’m talking about something almost impressionistic, something to which the word “freelance” would have no trouble sticking.

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If you were going to build this, yes a GG1 would be a good starting point, plus it would automatically give you two pantographs.

The body could be made of styrene or possibly kitbashed from caboose bodies.

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My first thought for the body would be to try to get ahold of 2-3 of the old MDC/Roundhouse boxcab diesels and splice them together. You’d have to figure out something for the curved ends of the NYC engine’s body but it would be a start.

https://www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/sr201306_boxcab.pdf

p.s. It would be cheaper to buy one of the old MTH O scale P2s, they sell cheaper than the HO brass ones do. Plus they run on three-rail track so would be easy to convert to pantograph or outside third rail, depending which version you choose. (Cleveland Union Terminal used pantographs, when they were sent east to NYC’s line out of Manhattan, they used outside third rail.)

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Hello All,

What a great project!

Now, slightly…[#offtopic]…

I am a big fan of specialty flatcars; heavy-duty 6-axle, 60 ton Gunderson Well, and multi-axled and truck depressed center.

My pike is based on a coal mine branch loop.

Lots of oversized loads for the mine arrive on specialty flatcars negotiating 15-inch curves and #2 turnouts.

As I look at the 2-C+C-2 configuration of this locomotive, the first thing that comes to mind is “minimum radius.”

Just like the articulation of multi-truck flatcars, from what I can deduce from the photographs is, the truck assembly seems to be double-articulated.

From a modeler’s perspective the cab unit could be easily replicated with a Gas-Electric box cab.

Reproducing (scratch building) the truck assemblies is going to be the challenge.

From the photographs- -the leading trucks seem to articulate independently from the side frames that support the traction motors.

The center pin of the entire truck assembly is the attachment point to the cab.

If I were to model the 2-C+C-2 truck assembly I’d look at Northwest Short lines Standon drives.

Perhaps the 38-inch assembly.

Even though these are only two-axle units, a third dummy pair of wheels could be mounted inboard of the drive wheels.

InterMountain Railway Company makes HO-scale 38-inch wheels.

For the leading two-axle units, 28-inch scale wheels might provide the clearance needed for the front articulating trucks.

Using the Stanton drives- -over traditional center-mounted motor/drivetrain configuration- -allows for the area previously occupied by these components to be use

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Was it Ben Franklin or Winston Churchill that said “You’re a day late and a dollar short”? Or maybe it was Groucho Marx.

Maybe two years ago I bought one of these “toy” models from an eBay seller:

N-H_EP-3_3 by Edmund, on Flickr

It was less than $25. including shipping! I knew it was a “toy” but it really looks pretty decent for a non-operating display model (it included a display track).

N-H_EP-3_1 by Edmund, on Flickr

My intention was to use it as fodder for a scrap yard scene but after a while I thought it was just too nice for that fate.

N-H_EP-3_2 by Edmund, on Flickr

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Haven_EP-2

It would certainly give you some very reasonable pieces to work with, especially the much sought after box-cab. Even the truck sideframes could be affixed to an operating HO truck, even one from a six-axle diesel. Who would know?

Here’s the guts of a Broadway Limited GG1:

BLI_GG1_Parts by Edmund, on Flickr

At one time there was a fairly reasonable GG1 from IHC or Rivarossi, I forget which, that wasn’t too

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Hi Matt,

Absolutely not! You have been given some great suggestions regarding what models would be a good starting point.

The roof part of the rounded ends might take a bit of work because of the compound curves, but they could be carved out of wood just like the ends of the old passenger car kits’ roofs were. When finished properly the woodgrain won’t show. The rest of the shell looks to be fairly straight forward.

As has been mentioned, there are several possibilities for making the drive system up. I have a couple of the Stanton drives and they work really well, although it might be cheaper to get a doner GG1.

I would definitely go for it. It will be a learning experience and a lot of fun!

Cheers!!

Dave

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https://iehobbies.com/products/model-engineering-works-cleveland-union-terminal-electric-locomotive-class-p-1a-unpainted

[:)]

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Hi Bear,

That is a very interesting find! Your search skills are definitely far superior to mine!

I’m still of the opinion that the OP should do a scratchbuild. That, IMHO, will provide far more modeling entertainment than putting a ready made locomotive on his layout.

[2c]

Cheers!!

Dave

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Hi again Matt,

I just came across a very appropriate quote for your project:

Jim Rohn, an American entreprenure, said the following: “Whatever good things we build end up building us”.

I think that describes scratchbuilding perfectly!

Cheers!!

Dave

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“Boy, I have a feeling I’m going to have a real hard time managing this thread.”
Before I get started, I’d like to apologise to Matt, because while I have no intention of derailing his thread, I just might.

I’m afraid, Dave, that I totally disagree, which may be surprising coming from someone who is still surprised to find, that I find, scratch building one of the aspects of Model Railroading that I most enjoy!

That said, the items I have scratch built are not commercially available, and unless a commercially available item was so rare and or expensive, I wouldn’t waste my time! Too many unavailable things on my to scr

11

I remember finding an MEW P-1a at a local train show. Couldn’t wait to get it home and on the layout (back in DC days).

Well, coffee grinder doesn’t even begin to describe the nasty gearing on these locomotives. Never did get that thing to travel more than a metre or two without the gears jamming up.

The NJ Custom Brass is only slightly better. Sadly, these specialty electrics still command a premium.

Still, on a budget, a Bachmann, Rivarossi (AHM, IHC) GG1 base and a cobbled-together box-cab might still be in the works.

https://www.trains.com/mrr/news-reviews/reviews/staff-reviews/bachmann-ho-scale-sound-value-gg1/

I’ve always had an eye for those Rh-B Crocodiles. Thought they were neat! The PRR had a similar beast as I show in the other post. I could almost be convinced to

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Morning all. I wanted you to know I had not abandoned my post (<— ha! See what I did there?). What a load of great suggestions! I really expected crickets or a list of reasons why the idea was crackers.

I don’t have the time today to respond individually to everyone who so thoughtfully posted photos and – my gosh – did such thorough research! I’m actually still trying to get through all the links. But thanks to all of you.

I will say here, though, that Ed, your models of the C.U.T. motors are outrageously attractive. What I like best is how those anti-hunting platforms jut out behind and ahead of the cab, like the prow and stern of a ship.

-Matt

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That was not what I was wanting to hear Ed, though I was wondering about the price discrepancy.[sigh]

I haven’t been able to find a dimensional drawing but what with the dimensions given here…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Central_P_Motor

…and the number of good quality square on side photos, coming up with a build drawing should be relatively easy. Added to this the abundance of good photos showing the details will help immensely, though it still won’t be a 5 minute task.[(-D][(-D][(-D] But definitely not a day dream!

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I’ve got a copy of the original GE clearance drawing that I’ll have to get digitized some day. It is about 2 x 8 feet. I did post this on the other Collinwood thread.

NYC_motor_P1a by Edmund, on Flickr

The MEW model as well as the NJ Custom one is pretty close to dimensional accuracy, maybe a bit of added “air-space” above the trucks, to be expected for a mosel to operate on our curves. Detail wise the MEW is "minimalist at best and the NJCB is only a tad better. Relief on the truck sideframes is next to none.

I’d really think it would be a neat project to tackle one of these Crocodiles and make a go of an operating HO model. I used to have one of the #1 gauge LGB models [:)]

Ebay Crocodile:

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I’ll have to bump this up on my priority list!

GE_P-1a-legend by Edmund, on Flickr

GE_P-1a-end by Edmund, on Flickr

GE_P-1a_right by Edmund, on Flickr

GE_P-1a-pivot by Edmund, on Flickr

My time machine is a two-seater. Want to come along?

CUT_P1a-construction-Erie by Edmund, on Flickr

CUT_P1a_Dedication-Erie by Edmund, on Flickr

Note the pantograph extension to reach the too-high wire at the GE test track in Erie.

Cheers, Ed

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"There are none so blind as those who will not see.”

Thanks, Ed,for posting that P-1 dimensional drawing TWICE!!!

[banghead][banghead][banghead] I hang my head in shame!!![:$]

Cheers, a sadder but probably not wiser Bear.

CUT PRR001 by Bear, on Flickr

EDIT: This is what I should have done had I been…

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While I can’t be so helpful as to even guess at a year, there was an article maybe back in the 80’s where someone used an HO scale GG1 model (Mehano or Rivarossi maybe) and made a boxcab electric out of it. The author (maybe Hegge?) removed the lead and trailing trucks for his model but still had a body similar to the P-1. If my memory serves the roof was fashioned out of a wooden passenger car roof from an older Walthers kit and the body used the MDC boxcab diesel as a start. When I first read this post it reminded me of that article.

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Here’s the address for the manufacturer

Editions Atlas SA
Route des dragons 7
CH-1033 Cheseaux-sur-Lausanne
Suisse (Switzerland)

How’s that for an address? “Dragon Road” (OK, it might mean “Dragoon” - a type of cavalryman that originated as mounted infantry)

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This thread has been banging around in my head for a while so when I happened to see an old AHM GG-1 for sale at a hobby shop for $20 this morning I knew it would have to come home with me. We test ran it before purchase and it did okay. Once I got it home I popped the shell off to see what the driveline looked like. In the very center is a motor (I hesitate to call it a can motor) which drives the outer and center wheels of each of the power trucks using a spring looking connector in place of a regular drive coupling. Basically think a normal model diesel driveline. The pantographs are connected by a wire which is not attached to anything but would be very easy to connect for overhead wire. The design of this locomotive would make it very easy to cut up the chassis to have the open porches in lieu of the enclosed body of the GG-1. I’m not real sure what I am going to do with this locomotive, but it does leave some options for modification the BLI model doesn’t.

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M

Morpar, I’m glad this rambling thread has inspired you to go where I fear to tread. If you’re successful, please post a photo here. Better, make a video as you go in case I ever decide to gird up my loins and try the same.

-Matt