I apologize if the answer to this is obvious, but I want to make sure I understand this prior to finishing up my layout: First, I assume that when a train needs to “pick up” or “drop off” a car on a spur that has its turnout “in reverse” from the direction the train is traveling (i.e., the train approaches from the frog end of the turnout) that the train stops before the spur’s turnout, uncouples at the point where the specific car needs to be added or subtracted, moves forward past the turnout points, stops when clear of the points, backs back down the turnout (the spur track this time), couples up the “added” car or uncouples the “subtracted” car, pulls back out past the points of the turnout, and backs back up (on the original line, not the spur) to re-couple up with the end of the train.
So, if that is indeed what a train does at a spur when approaching from the frog side of the turnout, what the heck do you do when the spur’s turnout is in the same direction as the train (i.e., the train approaches from the point end of the turnout?!?) I can’t for the life of me figure out how to operate this type of spur when adding or subtracting cars from the train … I must be missing something obvious … thanks!
When there isn’t a run around near by we would deliver the car on the return trip…After all there is no need to make moves that you don’t need to.
Now,if that was our last car to drop off we would simply make a “flying switch”…We then would stop the car after clearing the switch by using the hand brake and the engine would couple to the car and we would complete the setout.
Or does this refer to what I said elsewhere about there being the “way the management thinks the job should be done and the way the job is done out on the track”?
When running westbound (WB) all the cars for spurs with their switch at the west end can simply be pushed back in without the loco getting round them. So I would marshal all the cars for thoses spurs at the front or back of the train. (Which end depends on a mixture of when/where they will be detached, sighting when pushing back into the spur [as far as possible someone on the loco wants to be able to see where the car has got to directly - as soom as you start relaying hand signals - or even radio messages - you have a built in delay which can mean that the car gets to shoved too far] and load/weight [you generally don’t want a number of light cars between clusters of very heavy cars… this can result in “string lining” - more on sharp curves — or jack-knifing when pushing cars into a spur… so you wouldn’t usually put reefers between the loco and fully loaded hoppers for a shove back (as a simple example)].
All the cars for spurs at the east end (which will be shoved back in when the train is running Eastbound) will be in the middle of the train. This assumes that the train is doing an out-and-back - or that the mid bunch of cars will be picked up (after they’ve been dropped off at a pre-arranged location) by an East Bound train.
Let me disentangle that a bit…
If you are not going to cheat and fly cars in… ((If you are going to fly them you really want them next to the loco))
All the cars on a westbound that need to go into spurs with the switch at the east end MUSt either be run-round or taken past the switch to be brought back on an eastbound move.
The eastbound train that brings the cars back can be the same train, another train or a switcher sent out (from wherever) to do the job.
The total of cars worked in these ways may be moved to their destination in a mix of run-rounds, bring back by the same or other train or switcher move - as appropriate.
If the load is time sensitive, and if there is a siding long enough to hold your consist that is within a couple of miles of the destination, you can marshall the cars at the rear of the train. Cut away, go past the far end of the siding, reverse past the rear turnout leading into the siding, move forward and hook up, reverse, reline the turnout, and then push the cars up to the destination. Upon returning, simply back into the siding, and away you go.
1.We would dropped the car on our home trip…This is by far the most prefer method conductors would use.After all we will be coming this way.
2.We would run around the car and shove it ahead of the engine if it was a short distance because a brakeman would ride the car protecting the shove and flagging crossings…We would only do this for a very short distance maybe 2-3 city blocks.
3.Gravity drop.If the track was on a slight down grade we would stop,uncouple the engine,close the air vales on the car,uncouple the car from the train and release the brake and allow the car to roll into the siding.We would stop the car by using the hand brake.
4.We would use a flying switch only in some cases…
As far as empties/loads…It doesn’t matter where the loads or empties are place in a local,…We can always rearrange our train back in working order…However some conductors would want the pickups in the middle of the train if we had set outs on the return trip.
The train would be: Set outs/pickups/return set outs.See how the train remains in working order?
As far as making a reverse shove it doesn’t matter where cars are located as this picture of a PRR urban local making a reverse run to the West side of Columbus(Oh) shows.Notice the car is a reefer.
Guys,Again there is a lot more to railroading then any book can tell you…There are many tricks we would use to make our work easier and quicker.
When dropping off into spurs or collecting from them you have three options…
tie down the train.cut off the loco and use the loco alone to put the cars in or fetch them out.
tie down part of the train and use the loco and part of the train for the move.
tie down the caboose or nothing and work with the whole train (less caboose if you have one).
That is switch moves from a train in general.
As far as doing a shuffle before or after a switch…
As far as possible you do not want to shove cars ahead of the loco or trail the caboose. In either case someone should be riding the first/last car (and a last car should have a lamp/flag/FRED on it to show the train is complete). A few blocks would be okay or out in the wilds you might do it (carefully) for a couple pf miles.
As much as possible you want the loco close to the cars being worked so that the crew have the best view of what is happening… but… sometimes you use cars as an arm to reach in to push cars in or pull them out… a car in the dirt is a bit less of a problem than a loco… also, some factories have specific needs as afar as fire risk goes so they don’t wnt locos into them… in this case a string of flats may be held locally to act as “barrier” cars… this applied much more in the days of steam than diesal. Some steamers were “fireless” being charged from a static boiler at a safe distance from the dangerous part of the factory that they didn’t want a firebox near.
Something else to be considered (worked by local knowledge) … where a spur is steeply inclined - and possibly curved as well… a crew might use a cut of cars to put cars in/pull them out rather than suffer problems with the loco getting enough traction to push the cars in or get itself back out. It’s real embarrassing to get stuck in a spur! [:I] This will depend on the time of year/weather.
Dave,There is one more thing we must take into consideration…The Employee Time Table…Those can govern a lot of the ways a industry is to be switched to include locomotives being prohibited from operating over certain industry tracks or small bridges on the industrial track.[:D]
YES! [(-D] Larry, You’re driving me nuts! Different perspective on the same thing! But I’ve managed to cover the bridges by using a cut of cars as a barrier…
[8D]
PS did you see my last post on the Yard Ops thread? loads of questions for you…
But, Larry, upon return to the train, you must restore the cabin to the end of it, which is more complicated, more time, etc, than otherwise…as I said. You must back to the far end, throw, shove the cabin to the end of the train, and then get back to the front…much more involved…as I said.
Anyone notice how much faster an Engineer can get even the most clapped out loco to go with a big load when he’s on a home run and he wants to get to his dinner over above book some overtime?
The easiest (and currently preferred way) is to switch the industry on the way back. All the locals I’ve worked are “out and back” jobs. You work away from your yard to a certain point, run around your train, and then work back.
When this isn’t possible, there are the methods (many of which are now frowned upon) that Dave and Larry have mentioned.
Of them, if the grades cooperate, the encouraged method is to use a static drop. Secure the car, cut the engine away and drop in the clear, release the car’s brake, and hopefully it will roll into the clear on the spur.
Another option, if the locals only work in one direction, is to set the car off somewhere, for the local going in the opposite direction to pick up and spot.
I have a situation on my layout which calls for a facing point set out. I operate both east and west bound locals each day. At the midpoint of the modeled portion of the layout is a town with a lumberyard that has a spur that is trailing point for the westbound local. However the lumberyard receives much of its product from a sawmill on the branchline that connects to the main at the next town to the west. Only the eastbound local can make the pickup at the junction and deliver it to the lumberyard so it must deal with the facing point spur. I have a double track main with crossovers on either side of the lumberyard spur which gives the runaround track needed to make a facing point set out. This move requires fouling both mains while the set out is made so it can only be done when traffic is light. If necessary, the load could be taken back to the main classification yard to the east of the lumberyard and delivered by the westbound local the next day. This creates operational interest because the same problem can be handled with different solutions. For the smoothest operations, all spurs would be trailing point spurs but this would make for boring operation. Switching problems are a nuisance for the prototype but a plus for modelers.
In the US at one time, many switch engines carried a pole under their tender for just that purpose. At that time most cars had poling pockets on their ends for that reason.
Nope…There is not much time being comsumed.In fact it would take the same amount of time to place a pickup on the end of the train as it would the caboose…Now if the caboose is coupled to the pickup no problem.I have done that move many times and then some.Its a routine move.
You got to remember its not a game where moves count like in a switching contest.The goal is to get the car delivered and go to the next industry or clear up if your are ask by the DS…
Hopefully, I’ll have the room for the runaround!