Rich, I think we are both proposing the same solution.
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Rich, for now take out the crossover. Why in your lower diagram diagram is the polarity of the incoming lower track reversed from your upper diagram(before the now missing crossover). Wouldn’t it be a simple loop with red on the outside and black on the inside. adding a crossover would not change the polarity of the incoming tracks from the right.
Your upper diagram is correct just gap the crossover and move one of you green sets of gapping circles to the right of the of the crossover to give you length in the reversing section and you are good to go.
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Those two rails that form the reversing section in the track between the gaps could be any color. Both could be blue or purple or any color(s). The auto-reverser that controls the reversing section will sense the short and immediately flip the polarities to match the reversing section to the adjacent non-reversing section.
Rich
Yes, we do agree. FF does not.
Rich
Because my diagram is simplified to show the relevant portion of what is, in essence, a loop.
Rich
Rich, I was typing when you replied. My question is why did you change the polarity of the incoming lower track in you bottom diagram? It should be the same as your upper diagram. The crossover wouldn’t change that. Your upper diagram is correct and shows the problem clearly.
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Agree with loop, your lower diagram has red on the outside and black on the inside of the incoming lower track. Yet the upper outgoing track has black on the outside and red on the inside… Your upper diagram shows the proper polarity for a loop black on the outside all the way around and red on the inside. what changed to cause the flip in polarity of the incoming track in your lower diagram?
By the way, I do enjoy these problem solving threads,
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Because I wanted to keep the crossover and the connecting tracks (upper and lower) the same polarity from the get-go. You shouldn’t want to wire that particular layout as shown in the upper diagram because then you have to gap the center of the crossover. Onewolf wants to avoid that and so do I. Why do you want gap the crossover? It only adds complexity and a potential trouble spot.
Rich
OK, given your loop theory, with your lower incoming track now opposite of your upper outgoing track in the diagram, your upper track will come around clockwise and meet the lower track at some point on the layout. At that point the polarity will be opposite and another reversing section will be required,
OK, given your loop theory, with your lower incoming track now opposite of your upper outgoing track in the diagram, your upper track will come around clockwise and meet the lower track at some point on the layout. At that point the polarity will be opposite and another reversing section will be required,
No, the ‘upper’ track loops around to the other end (left) of the reversing section track. It seems so simple?
I’m talking about the two open ended entrance and exit tracks on the right of the diagram. At some point they will meet and the polarity will be opposite. You are much better at this computer stuff than I. Draw the complete loop with the upper track connecting to the lower track as wired in your bottom diagram and see of black meet black and red meets red.
FF, when it does, the auto-reverser, senses the mismatch and immediately flips the polarity of the reversing section to match the polarity of the adjacent track on which the incoming train moving from right to left (east to west) is entering the reversing section.
Rich
Rich, same train, leaves the lower diagram on the upper track moving left to right engineer is over the red rail comes around the layout and meets the lower track moving right to left, engineer is over the black rail. That’s a problem
That is an incorrect assumption. I already explained that early on.
It’s the same “problem”, but the same solution. The auto-reverser corrects the problem once again.
Rich
Forget about red and black in the reversing section. Make both rails blue. As an operator on that layout, you don’t know which rail is which polarity. But the A-R does.
How does an auto reversing section that is to the left of the crossover affect a polarity mismatch to the right of the crossover? the only section of track that changes polarity is the track in the reversing section, not where red meets black to the right of the crossover. as shown by my engineer location example
You keep talking about a scenario that is irrelevant to my situation. There is no return loop to the right of the crossover. Ok, well there is 500+ ft away in the upper return loop on the upper level, but that is handled by an AR1 on the upper level.
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My recommendation to the OP is to gap between the crossover turnouts. Gap at or near the frog end of the lower turnout and gap some distance to the right of the lower turnout to lengthen the reversing section… As currently wired, failure to gap the crossover will result in a short. Changing the polarity of the lower incoming track only will also result in a short. Will be interested to see how it turns out.
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Onewolf42, let us know what happens, but be carefull