Hello everyone.
I want to design a new switching (bookcase) layout using the extruded foam board. I would not go any wider than 2 feet and the longest length of the layout would be between 12-16 feet. What kind of framing souuld I use under the layout. Also I was thinking about attaching the layout to commercially purchased bookcases, since my carpentry skills are limited and want good looking storage. Just need to know your experiences with this stuff.
Thanks
You’ve got probably the simplest benchwork construction of anyone in the hobby in front of you! Since you want to go longer than 10’, you’ll need some sort of undersupport. I’d recommend 3/8" or 1/2 plywood, with the foam glued to the top (wood glue is fine). Since plywood only comes in 8; or 10’ lengths, I’d siggest tying everything together with 1x4’s screwed to the bottom, IF this is going to be one long, solid piece. If you’ll need to move it, build the layout in two equal lengths, use 1x4’s inder the plywood, and add hinges between the 1x4’s. Foam layouts weigh practically nothing, so carrying the entire layout around won’t be a problem. The hinges are there mostly to keep the two pieces of the layout together.
Thanks and one follow up question. Do you have to attach the track with glue or can track nails still be used? If you have to glue it, what glue(s) do you use? I want to attach the track directly without using road bed.
Thanks
Nails won’t work in foam, so you’ll have to use some sort of adhesive. I generally use wood glue, but it makes a VERY permanent bond. Some people are starting to use silicone caulk adhesive, because it makes a slightly flexible bond, and it’s easier to move track if you have to. Essentially, any foam compatible glue works well, so pick one and roll with it!
I’ve also got 1850 linear feet of 1/2" industrial strength 3M double sided tape coming from a friend of mine. Double sided tape is an appealing alternative to glue for me, so I’m anxiously awaiting the stuff so I can try it out! I’ve tried double sided carpet tape, but it doesn’t work. Humidity destroys the bond of carpet tape if there’s no weight on it, and lifts right off. It’s a shame, considering the tape does hold ballast down nicely, resulting in some of the nicest ballasting jobs I’ve ever seen.
Hi.
I am also considering foam as a base. You said that silicone is flexible and easier to move track. What damage does occur when removing track?
Thanks.
Kent.
The amount of damage depends on the type of adhesive used. Wood glue and Liquid nails dry hard, so there’s a chance you’ll either damage the track or the foam base when trying to pry up the track. Adhesives with more elastic bonds, like caulk and plastic cement are easier on the track, but are harder to clean off the foam base. White glue might be the best solution, since you can soak the track off the foam with warm water, and use warm water to clean off the old glue.
Ray.
Thanks.
I believe I will try the caulk after careful consideration of the track plan and giving the track pieces a dry run first.
Kent.
Kent, I decided to try the caulk as adhesive technique this weekend, and it works beautifully! It holds well, dries slightly flexible (and might deaden sound that way) and won’t destroy track when you (carefully) pry up track with a scraper. I applied some to a test piece of flextrack on Friday, and liked it so much that I laid my entire second level’s trackwork on Saturday night and today using it! With a thin layer of caulk (all you need) I was able to lay track on about 50 feet of mainline and sidings with a single tube!
Give it a try on a test piece if track, and maybe a scrap switch (make sure not to get any near the throwbar). I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised at how well it works.
cpcolin:
I built my layout on top of bookcases (actualu Ikea’s Ivar shelving). I used L-girders with the vertical bit on the outside of the shelving so that it’s removable.
I used large pieces of Homasote for the top, but I think I might use the foam now. I put small stringers every foot for support.
I made a new piece last summer with mostly foam. I glued everything together with a non-toxic contact cement (green) which didn’t attack the foam. I held the track in place with pins that didn’t go through the ties, but outside the rails,then took it up and glued it with the contact. Then I ballasted with matte medium/scenic cement.
David what are the demensions of the layout? Is it as wide as the shelving units? Can you explain a little further about your process? Also how did you level the layout?
I glued 1/4" plywood on the bottom of 2" foam but the wood warped from the glue. I then braced around the edges with 2" x 2" lumber. I now think the plywood was overkill and not needed. I’ve seen an artical in M.R. where just 1" x 4" lumber was glued to the bottom for bracing. I’ll try that next.
G.
I have heard that foam is a rather hazardous material in case of a fire.
Knowing that building codes very greatly, I’d like to know, if anyone does know, what is the best way to use this and keep it from becoming a hazard in case of a fire?
I’ve heard that people who play with toy trains are “funny” too.
Foam is no more of a fire threat than the wood, carpeting, wall insulation, and couch already in your home. In other words, if it’s burning you’ve got bigger problems. Yes, the fumes emitted are nasty, but so are the fumes from your burning carpeting. When used in home construction, building codes generally mandate no exposed foam, and that it be covered by at least 1/2" thick drywall.
Some people who rememebr the Rhode Island nightclub fire will point to foam and yell “deathtrap”. Well possibly, but how many of us have burning magnesium torches in our basements? Foam will not catch fire until WELL past the flash point for wood AND drywall, according to several university studies, all available online.
If you’re queasy about foam, don’t use it, or add 1/2" of plaster to it (on all four sides). But bear in mind that the foam will only be burning because the wood around it is already fully engulfed.
cpcolin,
Here is a link to building modules with foam as the subroadbed. It is pretty straightforward, with lots of pictures. The resulting modules are very lightweight.
Go to http://www.railwaybob.com , enter the site, and go to the link near the bottom lablled “DCC”. There is DCC info, and the “how-to” on module building.
Andrew
Orsonroy,
I’ve been following threads about the foam board… sounds really appealing to give it a shot. I was wondering though, on the caulking question, what brand/type, would be best. I ask because I have a case of “painters” caulk left over from doing paint and carpenty trim in my house… I use alot of adhesive caulk at work setting sinks, toilets and things like that, but find that after a couple of weeks, it becomes rock hard. What did you use?
Thanks!
Rey
I actually used the cheapest thing I could find that had three words on it, “silicone, adhesive, clear”. Other than that, I didn’t care WHO made it! The stuff I picked up was about $1.15 a tube at Meijer’s, and it was a brand name I’d never heard of.
Now that my caulk has been holding track for two weeks now, it seems to have worked just fine. It’s a good, very slightly flexible bond, and track pops right up with a spatula if you need to readjust it.
I’d say sacrifice a length of flextrack to test out whatever silicone caulk you’ve got lying around the house, to see if it’ll hold. Since I’m using foam, I spread a very thin layer of caulk where I wanted track, laid the track, and then used pushpins to hold the track down. I removed the pins after two hours, and nothing moved out of position.
The only real way to see if something works is to try it out yourself! Personally, I think I’m going to stick with caulk to lay track from now on!
I do plan to us foam as the base for my next layout.
I was just a little concerned because of what I had heard elsewhere. If it doesn’t burn until well after wall board I cann’t see why covering it with a half inch of wallboard could be a very good code requirement.
But then nothing the government does surprizes me.
I think the reason for the code requirement is that when it DOES burn, it emits all sorts of nasty chemical compounds that will kill you quick. My main point is that by the time this happens, the entire house is one big inferno. And once burning, it’s almost impossible to get foam to STOP burning.
There’s an agricultural college report online that tested various wall coverings for fire rating, to look for the least flammable insulating material for cattle barns. They took a blowtorch to various materials, and noted that the BEST wall treatment was CDX plywood. Standard BC plywood came in second, and 2" foam came in third. Drywall was pretty far down the line in terms of flash fire safety. Unfortunately, drywall is about the only material that doesn’t give off a lot of deadly smoke when it burns.