I have been flipping back and forth between a tabletop layout or an operating pit type layout… My space requirement is pretty set - 7’ x 15’ is about all I have. I don’t want any switching - mostly just want to watch my trains run through some nice scenery. And want to run 4 at one time if possible…
Below is my latest stab at a plan. The elevations are 52" and 56" in case you can’t read them on the plan. The loops don’t connect. The lower level outside loop is my passenger train track with a siding for a local to come in (allowing 2 passenger trains on that loop). The lower level inside loop is a freight loop. The upper loops are coal and freight trains.
The operating pit is 30" wide. I operate (watch) by myself… With some “Pennsy looking” scenery, do you think this will look nice?
Edit: I just realized, I was going to put the upper loop on the left side into a tunnel to break it up some and forgot to change it…
Without addressing the question of whether or not you will quickly lose interest by operating in this manner, a first step to improve appearance would be to avoid paralleling the edge of your bench work with the track. And avoid paralleling the upper tracks with the lower tracks. Visual interest will be improved by varying the track orientation and creating a variety of spaces between the two rights-of-way.
With as much as I work, I just want to watch some trains go by for awhile in the evening… so I don’t think that will be an issue.
I understand what you are saying about not paralleling, but I can’t figure out how to fit it otherwise with decent radius curves. Having a hard time visualizing in 3D and coming up with ideas… guess thats why I’m here…
A plan that is an around the walls type will always give you more running track than a table type. That is what your current plan shows, so go with it.
I think you may be using more track than you need, in that it limits the amount of quality scenery space you have. You might consider just having all of the track on one level, with passenger and siding in an inner loop and the freight track with loader loop on the outside. You could have wider radius curves, employ some of the trackwork technics mentioned above, and have more space for scenery. If watching trains run through scenery is your goal, I think putting it all on one level gives you a more realistic looking set up.
I think you should keep planning. I don’t think the plan will meet your needs in any respect. Since you aren’t interested in operation I would put in some staging tracks and maximize the atrack in visilbe areas, lose the mine. Put some staging on both mainlines.
You say you just want to watch trains run but it takes very little to add some interest at the beginning versus tfinding out the plan is deadly boring and then try to fix it after the layout is built.
What does the room (not just the layout area) look like ? Will this 7 x 15 foot area be up against one wall of the room? Up against Two walls? Three walls? Up against all four walls? In the middle of the floor, with 36" or more wide aisles on all four sides of the area?
How and where do you plan to enter the pit - looks to me like you will have 2 foot wide benchwork on to duck under at the narrowest, with the lower level tracks at elevation 52" - how low will the bottom of your benchwork be - about 4" lower, at 48"?
You want to watch trains run. No problem.
But is there some reason for why you want to watch H0 scale trains if what fascinates you is watching trains run through the landscape? Why not N scale trains - where an 15" radius curve would be a nice wide curve, and you could do four parallel loops on an e.g. 5 foot wide island/table style layout with a central viewblock d
Your track plan idea reminds me of a type of display layouts which could be found in larger train station in the Germany of the 1960´s. Drop in a coin and watch up to 4 trains run for 5 minutes…
Now, there is nothing wrong in your interest of “just” watching trains run, if that´s what you want. The lack of real operation will make it boring after a little while, unless you can compensate it with some “spectacular” scenery. I am afraid that your idea won´t work in this way, as all tracks are neatly lined up with the sides of the layout. Take a look at this year´s MR project layout, the Salt Lake Route, and you understand, what I mean.
I originally had two ovals 18/22 with sidings off the inner oval which held 2 staging trains
Switching the trains from the sidings to the mains and from the mains to the sidings was a novelty at first which I soon got tired of.
I took the sidings off and just let them run around the ovals and switched out engines and rolling stock from my “Staging Cabinet” underneath the layout out every other day
Assuming that you don’t change your mind and adopt many of the good suggestions offered, here is a quick sketch modifying your plan to avoid the rigidity and parallelism of the original. Radii are appropriate for the traffic as you have defined it; the mine spurs are moved to the presumed uphill “rear” and easily lengthened; station is relocated to the passenger side of the tracks. I also suggest connecting the two loops on each level, but haven’t shown that. Blue is upper level, green the lower.
You know I started with an ellaborate layout track plan which after installation of the track, I sliced, picked, removed and re-installed track to what actually worked for me. In actuality I ended up with an ellaborate oval…anyhow my ellaborate oval does have some interesting scenery as well as a mainline for fast freight and passenger and I was able to work in a “slow track” for street running down a main street with a small town. So in essence you can become creative and insert many interesting scenes, sidings or a street running scene on a slow track. And, if you just want to watch trains run on through, you have your mainline wide open. Good Luck!
First off - thanks to all of you for the input! Some great stuff here - just what I was looking for!
I’ll try to address some of the questions/ideas… First off, here is the room and where the layout goes:
Stein - I looked hard at that Keese layout previously - and I did have a plan with all 4 tracks on the same level and parallel (like the Pennsy mainline) - but what I didn’t like about that was that with 4 trains running, you can’t even see the ones in the middle tracks when they pass (which they will do often on a small layout) - I set up 4 trains on my current rough layout to test it, and didn’t like it… That’s why I opted to go two different elevations.
N scale isn’t an option - I have way too many HO steam engines/rolling stock, and besides, I don’t like N nearly as much (seems more about the scenery than the trains).
I took some of the input and messed with another sketch today - here is my thinking with it.
Now, the lower level will only be visible in the bottom (front) of the layout. I was also thinking that I would add some staging in the part of the layout that is under the upper (back) part of the layout - so I can leave some trains back there for a period of time - was even thinking of some sort of timing system that would take power away for a period of time to “hold” a train so it doesn’t come right back…
The upper level is hidden in the large mountain that will be on the left end of the layout. And the shape is varied some where it is visible in the front. I also added (roughly) some industry and switching on the right loop. I was thinking a town of sorts on the whole right loop. I just kind of threw it in there for the moment, just to get the idea down
Hmmm - you are making what essentially seems to be a H0 scale display layout.
Where is your viewing position? Are you (and any onlookers) going to be viewing your layout from the front (ie from the main part of the room), or from the pit or both? Will there be view blocks anywhere on the layout - if so where?
Also - do you really need to have two sets of double track main tracks on your layout?
Here is a stray thought - how about if you set up your layout so the rear half of the layout (up against the wall) will be all staging - perhaps on two levels (upper and lower), while the front part of the layout is your view box - where the viewing will take place.
There will be a skyboard/view block between the front part of the layout and the pit, at the edge of the pit, so you cannot see the part closest to the wall from the room side.
The pit will only be used when restaging trains or if working on tracks in staging.
When looking from the room into your “view box” you will have a double track “high line” towards the rear of the scene (by the skyboard/view block), and a single track “low line” with a passing siding and a little local switching at the very front of the layout (towards the main part of the room) ?
Will allow you to have trains display running on auto pilot on two parallel mains in the rear part of the viewbox, maybe automated to such a degree that you will be rotating between say two or three trains running on each main, with the trains always running in the same direction on each main track - say clockwise on the innermost main loop, counterclockwise on the outermost main loop or whatever takes your fancy.
In the lower/front part of the viewbox you can sometimes let a third train run on autopilot
The upper left corner, and where the fireplace and closet are placed, would lead me to look at a triangular corner layout, not a rectangular one taking up part of the left wall and most of the right. Your curves could still be very generous. You won’t block the closet so much. I think your closet is essentially blocked as you depict the intended footprint.
You are getting some strong and experienced help from these good men here. Enjoy it!! [8D]
Crandell - I’m enjoying the help for sure! The closet that I am close to in the upper right corner of the room is a small under the stairs closet that holds my train stuff - I can open the door and get in fine with the layout there. I’m not following you on how a triangular layout would fit… I can’t come into the room any further than the footprint that I have marked the rectangle one in.
Stein - we are very much on the same page. I want a display layout like you said. The main viewing by guests (and me when I’m feeling lazy) would be in the main part of the rec room, from the front like you said - and the backdrop I talked about would be a view block just like you said - on the back of the front section. I will slope the viewblock down on each end so it flows into the side parts of the layout. The bridge shown on the upper level by the station, will be over the road leading to the station. I will use stone retaining wall along the upper level lines on both sides of the bridge - dividing the high line from the low line basically - and working with the other scenery to blend it in.
I was thinking of changing the elevation of the upper loops as it travels across the front by lowering them some from the bridge to the tunnel on the left - so it looks more like the upper and lower lines are headed to the same place. Then raise it back up while in the mountain, before it gets to the back section and comes back out. The hardest part in my mind to make work is the elevation difference between the high line and low line on the right side - I have to try to minimize the fact that they don’t go to the same place… And to block the view of the industries on the upper level, right side.
The pit will be used when I feel like “operating”… that is why I want the coal mine on the back section (a
Hmm - the thing I still feel is a little iffy (from my point of view) is that you are pulling the exact same trick (double track main, trains passing each other heading in opposite directions) twice.
In my opinion you would get more variety and a more interesting both to watch and to run layout if you do the double track main once, and then do a single track main with a passing siding.
You can still automate things so one train runs continuously on the lower level, and then - at the flick of a switch, that train will stop on the next loop, switches will be thrown, and the second train (which were waiting in the siding at the lower level) can now run.
Maybe something roughly along these lines (green is lower level, dark blue is upper level):
Very well done Stein, as usual. As a suggestion, since this is a display layout, perhaps there should not be so much trackage behind the view block. Maybe make the viewblock an L shape, bending the view block on the left side, where the word “peak” is, and run it vertical to where you have “15.0”. This would open up that side for viewing and maybe get you a longer mine switch lead. Since the block and the wall would limit access to the corner, maybe a mirror image flip of the entire plan, so what is now left is on the right, still having a duckunder on the right side and access to both the closet and the track.
Stein - Thanks for taking the time to put that together! I think you are on to something there! I would have to comprimise a couple things I was after, but I like it. I like the way the mine is out in the front now. And how you used stub end sidings for the mine - I’ll use that idea no matter what - it just seems to fit a mine better.
Before I saw your reply and plan you did, I had done some work on my plan to show you my thoughts on the viewblock and how to make the right side work. I’ll throw it in here so you can at least see it. I just marked over the original, so kinda read between the lines…
I went ahead and ran the high line into a tunnel on the right side too. And used a highway bridge on the industry side of the viewblock to bring the tracks back into the scene. I know it still is just 2 main lines running through like you said… just wanted to show you anyway.
