another (specific) dcc question...

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

i know some of you dcc experts have the atlas “king-size ho plan book” sitting around handy. i’m going to build the ho-35 layout to play on while i fill my basement with a hand-laid empire.

ho-35 is a 4x12 plan with maybe 60-80 feet of track. it has a reversing section, and a turntable. i’ll maybe run three-four locos at the same time.

will the digitrax zepher beginner set handle the job?

a. will the power pack it includes handle that much track?
b. all together in one block?
c. will it control the turntable and reversing section?

thanks as always,
calvin.

2

Yes

Yes

No, due to the reversing sections and turntable.

No, additional modules are required, true with any DCC system. You’ll need a Digitrax AR1 or equivalent for each reversing section (the turntable is a reversing section).

See: http://www.dcctrains.com/tonystips/dccprimer/index.htm

3

The turntable can be reversed with an atlas controller. I use this method
myself. After turning your loco, a simple flip of a switch and you are off
and running. This will also work for the reversing section, just as with DC.
This is not much of a problem on a small layout, but the advantage of a
reversing module is you dont have to manually change polarity, so your
trains will run unattended, which is basicly the idea behind DCC anyway. Dave

4

Well maybe “unattended” is a little exaggerated, maybe I should have said
“less attended” Dave

5

thanks so much, tony’s is now bookmarked.

but the more i read, the more questions…

quoting (from memory) from loys toys…“the zepher as it comes from the factory can control one loco at a time. with additional throttles plugged into jump ports, it can handle more.”

i was assuming at the throttle, i could punch up a loco’s address, give him some steam, and while he chugs around the mainline, punch up a yard switcher’s address (with the same throttle), and start building trains, all while the first loco keeps going.

not so?

6

Yes, you can have more than one engine going at one time, with one throttle. I know a number of people who do that. By the way, I second buying a reversing loop unit as they aren’t that expensive and they are a thousand times better than using a controller from Atlas.

The Zephry is a nice unit. Don’t sweat the details, you’ll be happy with it.

The reason for more than one block is so that if you have an electrical problem, you can trace it easier. Imagine your house or apartment or suite with all the wiring the house or whatever, all on one “block”. So now you have an electrical problem, which wire is it. Basically with fuses or circuit breakers, in a way you are creating a block (actually a power district in the strict sense).

There are two types of blocks, harder ones and easier ones. The blocks we suggest are the easy ones. The hard blocks are linked up to toggle switches with lots of wiring so that you can select the throttle to run the train, more throttles the more wiring in one block. The easy blocks you just put some insulated rail joiners in one location or more locations to break your layout into blocks. Each block has one or more set of feeders.

This may sound hard, but the wiring is simple except for the reversing loop (which isn’t that hard). You run two large wires underneath your layout down the center (call a power bus), then you solder your feeders to the rail and to the power bus.

So big wire underneath is A and the other one B. Your feeders on the one track is “1” and the other track is “2”. So you solder track one feeder to power bus A and track 2 feeder to power bus B. DCC systems are happy with more feeders. If you don’t know how to solder, it is actually easy to learn. You first 3 or 5 joints will be crappy after that you get the hang of it and you are away to the races.

7

So.
That is exactly right. But with additional throttles, you can control more trains at the same time. The jump ports allow you to use two DC power packs as
throttles. With the Digitrax Dt 400 throttle you can control 2 locos at once. It
also has a quick recall system to recall other locos. Dave

8

look at the price of the next best system. For less than $100 I bet you can get an even better system that will be more flexible.

It costs more to buy a cheap system and find out it doesn’t do what you want in the future than it does to buy a better system that will handle more when you get ready for it.

Dave H.

9

Ok, question you need to ask:

How many locomotives are you wanting to run at once? (4 from above)
Are there lighted cars on the track (Passenger cars, ect)?

these two here will help us determine if a 2.5 amp zepher is what you need (I assume from your post you’ve already decided on it). Somone posted earlier a similar question on the atlas DCC forum, he wants to run 3 consists of 3 loco’s each and wanted to use the zepher as well. but unfortunatly he would be constantly tripping the breaker as he would be over the 2.5 amp limit.

You say 3-4 loco’s, well those alone bring you to at or near 2 amps, any more or any lighted cars and your over. if you want better expandability, you’ll need to start with a 5 amp system. you coulds still use the Zepher by adding a couple of boosters and blocking the track (but them you’ve just paid more than just getting a 5 amp in the first place).

Also remember that any crossover’s between track sections need to be checked for polarity, if there’s a change, you’ll need a reversing module there as well. So you need at least 2 reversing modules, maybe more for crossovers, a starter set and 3-4 decoders.

You could get a Lenz 90 for a little more than a Zepher, giving you 5 amps, a stronger warrenty, free upgrades (software) and 2 coupons for decoders.

Zepher is $199 with power supply
Lenz 90 is $290 witout power supply, add $35 for powersupply

4 decoders is roughly $120 ($30 each, there’s cheaper and more expensive ones)

so Zepher + 4 decoders is $319
Lenz 90 + power supply + 2 decoders( 2 others via the coupons) is 385

Note: Prices are MSRP, you can aquire cheaper values at certain sites

So for $66 you get 2.5 amps more, a 10 year vs 1 year warrenty, and free software upgrades. there’s other differences, but that should be enough to give you some thought.

the reversing modules are additional costs to that above. Digitrax rever

10

Listen, this discussion CAN and WILL go on and on.I prefer Digitrax, someone
else prefers Lenz, yet another prefers MRC…you get the idea. There is no
"correct " answer to the burning DCC question. My advice is to do your homework,
read the already 2.5 million post about which DCC system will best fit your needs,
search the web, talk to freinds, your hobby shop, read books, and make a informed
decision. The funny thing is that you asked a “specific” question about Digitrax and
someone( I won’t mention any names) had to chime in with their Lenz info.
Stop the madness!!! Dave

11

Dave,

I don’t own either system, so don’t call me a lenz fanatic yet. Someone sugested a little better priced system for him. I only trying to show him the cost comparison to show him how he could get a 5 amp system for a little more by chosing a Lenz sytem as opposed to the making the jump to a super chief for an additional $300. I didn’t include the super chief, as I would think it’d be better to compared to a lenz 100.

Also the cost of a 5 amp booster+power supply plus a Zepher is well over what he would pay for a Lenz 90 + Powersupply. Just trying to help him, not promote a particular system. if he plans on running less than 5 loco ever, never expanding, then the zepher is for him. But if he plans on expanding, he might as well prepare for it now and save himself lot’s of money in the long run.

Jay.

12

continuing thanks to all !!!

i appreciate all comments, i have no stock in any of the dcc manufacturers.

i have pretty much decided on digitrax, mainly because i keep reading that you may need to expand digitrax, but you’ll never need to throw any digitrax away. i don’t doubt lenz is comparable in this respect.

all i definately need immediately is that i can build the layout all as one block, except for the reversing section. i still have time before the dcc purchase will be made.

i do welcome further comments on the following:

  1. the 10 year warrenty thing… yes, it’s very assuring, but it’s electronic stuff right? if i make it past the two-month infant mortality period, i’m probably set for life. has anyone used the warrenty after 1 year? or even before one year?

  2. software upgrades… certainly appealing. but almost double the price for the auto-reverse module cause it’s upgradeable? what’s to upgrade about switching track polarity?

ok, so now i definately know it will be lenz or digitrax. i think.

it’s getting pretty cold outside, so i don’t mind this discussion going on and on.

calvin.

13

Lenz’s warrenty:

http://www.lenz.com/support/index.htm

the reverser is also covered by the full 10 year warrenty.

As for what’s to upgrade on the Reverser, it’s not the switching, it’s the XpressNET system that is upgraded to keep itself up with advances in technology.

Review the Lenz site on it’s XpressNET System (http://www.lenz.com/products/xpressnet/index.htm), then review Digitrax’s Loconet (http://www.digitrax.com/loconetq.htm) for the differences between the two systems.

Both are strong systems, it comes down to what you want out of the system in terms of support, versitility, and expandability.

BTW, i find that Lenz has a better website layout. and being a CS person, well designed websites tend to draw me to a product more. websites are a reflection of a companies philosophy. cluttered and messy seems to equate, although not always, to a ho-hum type atmosphere in the company. where-as well thought out and strong websites seem to equate to a Great pride in the product, again not always the case. but seems to be something i’ve seen as a trend over the years.

Jay

14

I am a Digitrax owner, and very satisfied with it. The Lenz systems are just as expandable. I could see no real differences between Digitrax, Lenz, NCE… I went with Digitrax because that is what the local club uses. (www.comrail.org)

Most likely you can use other brands of reversing modules, for example the MRC units work fine with Digitrax.

15

With respect to your question about the turntable. I used a mobile decoder (DH121) to run mine so that I could limit its speed. As to the reversing part, I use a DPDT switch. When the hut on the turntable passes the halfway mark, I throw the switch. It seems to work fine.

Good Luck…Ken

16

Forget the free software upgrade that every Lenz owner includes in their posts when it comes to Digitrax. Digi and Lenz have two different architectures, one needs more upgrades than the other. I used to say that Digitrax didn’t need any software upgrade but discovered there were one or two obscure ones that can be added but almost no one does. So when Lenze owners taut free software upgrades that’s because that is how Lenz does it.

With Digitrax I have the original flavour with the DT100 hand throttle. If I bought the latest DT400, I would then have the latest flavour of the Chief. Both throttles do the same thing, one is easier to use for programming. Since I’m planning to use a computer to program, I’m not sweating the fact I don’t own the latest hand held. Actually I don’t like them, I think they are too large.