Well I read IC_Jeremy’s original thread that was locked and considered not replying because it’s been a rough day around here, but he posed a few questions to train store owners and since this is part of the reason I joined the forum I will answer this to the best of my knowledge of things and try not to overstep the boundaries of promoting my shop.
One line of your thread said something like “why do stores insist on charging MSRP?” The simple answer is because this is the price, with everything factored in, that the manufacturer recommends for all involved to make a fair profit. Your definition of fair profit may be different than others.
You may already know this, but I’ve noticed not everyone knows what MSRP actually stands for. That’s Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price. I think the key word in there is SUGGESTED. If the MSRP is 9.98 and you want to sell it for 8.98 or 7.98 to be competitive with other sources then you are free to do so. If you think you can only get 5 bucks for it and you don’t mind losing money, you can also do that. If you think you can get 11 or 12 bucks for it, as I understand it, you can charge more than MSRP.
Where I would point out a discrepancy with your question is that shops “insist” on charging MSRP. Apparently your new store there does, but there are plenty of shops across the country that charge less than MSRP.
And while trying to not make this too long, yeah there is a BIG difference in the overhead that an on-line shop has and what a real shop has to pay for overhead. And most shops have to pay far more in overhead expenses than mine does.
Look at the line where you mentioned “stop in for something you really need.” I’ve heard this before. Some folks want their LHS open 6 days a week so they can buy paint and glue or to use it as their internet showroom (yep, we know who you are) and don’t realize that if they don’t support the shop a little better than a bottle of paint once in awhile that the shop will not be around long…th
First I have to confess that I buy most of my hobby related purchases on-line, and while I agree with you that a LHS owner can charge whatever they want for their stock, I think many of them are not interested in trying to keep up with the times. Most of the on-line shops that I deal with have storefronts as well (Trainworld, MB Kleins, Peach Creek Shops etc.), and one of the LHS that I go to when I am visiting my wife’s family (Discount Trains, Addison, TX)but they are still able to sell at a discount, because they make larger orders of stock and get better pricing from the manufacturer/wholesaler so that they can pass that on to their customers.
I have spoken to two LHS in my area about putting up a on-line store so that they would be better equiped to survive in the long run, but neither showed much interest. They seemed to be more interested in the status quo. One of them charges full MSRP for everything and the other only slightly less. I find it hard to give them my business when I can buy the same things they have in the store for 30%-40% less on-line. Even when you tack on shipping I still save 20%-30%, and that is not even taking into consideration blow out sales that many of the on-line stores have.
I will say that I have never done my browsing for loco’s etc from a LHS and then bought on-line. I don’t think that is fair, but because I can get more for my dollar on-line I tend to go to the LHS only when I want something right now and am willing to spend the extra on it. If I lived closer to any of the shops above (and I am sure there are many more out there like them) I would be more willing to shop at the LHS.
I have bought literally everything for my hobby online, or from friends I have met through the net…a lot of what I have has been traded for from those same friends, and sometimes, just outright given away, both ways. I did not support my LHS. It was not what I considered an LHS. It was a Hobbytown. over 50% of what they had was R/C related, and it didn’t sell. This is the store I asked about On30, and the co owner and train “expert” asked me what that was. Evidently, I am not the only one who did not use this Hobbytown, because they are gone now. One Track Mind, you sound like a pretty reasonable business owner. Probably about like the man who used to own the large family run LHS in downtown many, many years ago. Although I purchase my stuff online, I don’t think there could ever be a way that an online store could have as much overhead as a wood frame or brick and mortar store. Atlanta is the closest place to me with a decent LHS. I’m not going to drive that distance every time I need something, whether it’s a small or large purchase. You are correct about shiping cost adding onto the cost. If you are careful though, you really can purchase things for below MSRP online, shipping and all. As on Ebay for example, enter your max bid, and stick to it. Find a reputable seller with good feedback, and low shipping. One Track Mind, I admire you because this is certainly a business where the internet really can take a bite out of the little guy. Maybe if I had access to an LHS like yours, I might buy more stuff locally. Maybe.
I agree with knewsome !! I live in the Cumming, Ga area (45 minutes north of Atlanta) and I cannot tolerate my local LHS !! I don’t like the customer service I get when I walk in nor do any of the associates act as if they care in selling anything - instead they are always “knocking” or talking bad about products. So my answer in return is simply this - “Then how do you expect to sell anything with that attitude” and furthermore If they don’t like the product then why carry it in in the first place ?? The only products I will ever purchase from local LHS is magazines or publications as I don’t have to bother with the sales people. Hobby stores are supposed to be fun and enjoyable places to go but I have never encountered one yet where there are open minded individuals. I am a strictly a collector and I enjoy this hobby with a passion but I have zero tolerance for rude individuals.
For example I recently called the local LHS wanting to do a pre-order on the new Aristocraft E-8 (CB&Q) series and they refused to accomodate me as they didn’t want to be bothered. I hung up and immediately found the same exact engine online from another vendor. Now I would have given the business to the LHS but they were nasty about the whole thing and I didn’t need the agravation. I still don’t know how they are remained in business all this time. The owner of my LHS should be working as a mortician or in a cemetery where he doesn’t have to deal with customers.
You guys need to come up to Raleigh, NC. Tom’s Train Station. Huge store, great selection, great people! My only complaint is that everything sells at MSRP. Otherwise, they’re really nice, really helpful, and really knowledgeble. Sometimes it’s worth paying MSRP to get the chance to inspect and test an item before you pay for it. These guys even do clinics! They have a huge Thomas the Tank Engine area where I can drop of my two young sons while I shop. The folks who work there are model railroaders themselves and are up-to-date on topics like DCC. I enjoy browsing there, even at stuff that’s not in my scale (like O scale PRR X29 boxcars!).
Long-live the LHS. I’d much rather be there on a rainy weekend afternoon talking trains with other modelers than hunched over a computer. I still shop online too, but I’d say my business in about 50-50 online and LHS.
I like hobby shops but not the ones in my area. I am with your theory that I would rather be talking trains on rainy days more than anything else - and I don’t expect the associates to know every little detail about various manufacturers or specifications but I have been in business and as I said before it is not the product you are selling but more importantly how well you can sell yourself. I would much rather purchase a broken MTH railking model from a salesperson who will smile and show interest than to buy MTH premier engine from a wiseguy. It sounds like Raleigh is a nice place and Atlanta is not that far away. Thank you for the referral
If you’re coming to NC, you should also check the LHS in Spencer, NC (also the home of the NC Transportation Museum). It is the Little Choo Choo Shop, and I just love it. It is worth the 45 minute drive from Greensboro that I make to pick up my supplies.
I looked at Choo-Choo’s website and I like what I see !! - it is a little over 4 hours from where I live and it looks like a nice place to visit. I’m going to Franklin, NC in October and I think I will stop in for a visit.
This is a dilemma I haven’t yet resolved. I’m a newbie, so I’m going to have to purchase everything: track, roadbed, turnouts, locos, rolling stock, full DCC system, scenery materials, etc, etc., etc. That’s going to add up to a lot of $$$$ The LHS here in the Columbus, OH area is good one, with pretty knowledgable guys and generally helpful and friendly. And, the best part, they sell below MSRP–about 10% below on big ticket items (locos, some even more off, Walther’s 130’ turntable, etc.). But even with that, it’s going to cost me a significantally more amount to buy from them than on-line. I imagine in the end I’ll end up ordering both on-line and from them.
The lhs’s in my area used to know what they were selling, I live in the sf bay area. Now none realy do, they are all gone but a few and they only know what they are into, if anything. I buy on e-bay, how can you go wrong when you can buy a spectrum 4-6-2 brand new out the door, only my latest purchase, for $36.00 including shipping. Most train shows out here have died too.
Once you figure space availability and the scale you want to model in do a shop comparison. After speaking with the local guys then you can cost compare with the cyber guys. I started doing professional layouts about 10 yrs ago and then I got away from the design aspect and decided that collecting was what I really enjoyed. Today I have over 250 steam locomotives ranging from narrow gauge to standard gauge in all scales and I enjoy talking about trains. I spend time with my nieces and nephews talking trains and how they came about and I watch their faces light up like a lightbulb. It is something I have found to be very fullfilling. Trains put a smile on everyone’s face and you don’t have to be a super genious to get into this industry[:)] Most important thing is to have fun. You can create miniature worlds and be in total control of whatever.