Hi model rr wizzards, here another pressing question. Forgive me if it’s been asked before (it looks like such an obvious one) -
How come there arent any good-looking Mother Hubbards (is that the same as a ‘camelback’?) in HO scale? Or any other broad- grated big- firebox antracite burning locomotives? (except, granted, BLI’s huge N&W articulateds)
As i indicated in another thread, it starts to hurt that most of those handsome proto 2000 cabooses (e.g. D&H, LV, LNE) have to ride behind either diesel or the ubiquitous Spectrum Baldwin 2-8-0, instead of behind their ‘natural’ locomotives like broad-grated 2-8-0, 2-8-2 or 0-8-0, those with the engineer and fireman each on their own side halfway the boiler (if the fireman isnt busy with the fire on the little platform betwween tender and engine).
I recently bought a DVD on the CNJ 1940’s - '50’s, and whereever you see steam, you see huge fireboxes - they were EVERYWHERE.
I can imagine a Bachmann spectrum-like quality Mother Hubbard in HO would be an immensely pleasing model, in any wheel arrangement, and with few if any modifications suitable for CNJ, LV, RDG, LNE, D&H - etc etc.
Is anything coming up that i’ve missed? Like a kit where you have to replace say the Spectrum 2-8-0’s boiler and tender? (Bowser, for instance?)
Would the manufacturers consider NJ/PA/NY market for model railroads too small to come out witth a new model? This question, mind you, being asked by a model rr’er from Holland, Europe!
The only manufacturer that I know of that makes the Mother Hubbard Locomotives is International Hobby Corp. (IHC). They are supposed to be a good running loco but not not very well detailed. The terms Mother Hubbard and Camelback are most often used interchangably, however I have been informed by some on this forum that they are actually different locos. Most websites call them either…??? These locomotives burned waste anthracite that could not be otherwise used and so filled a nitch in the railroad industry at the time. They were most often used on passenger service because they produced little or no soot.
Bachmann did have a nice looking Reading 2-8-0, but the running qaulities were suspect. One of the problems with modeling the antracite region is that it is a small part of railroading in North America. There is a very active ‘Special Interest Group’ that can assist you. Look at the NMRA web site or the Yahoo ‘Groups’.
Antracite coal is a very hard slow burning coal. My understanding is that it is high in BTU’s, and was favored for heating - it burns very clean. Those N&W engines had large fireboxes, but were not antracite burning engines with Wooten fireboxes.
Interesting details there. As to the models, nor the IHC nor the Bachmann are anywhere near pretty enough to sit next to, say, a Spectrum 2-10-0. As you say, Jim, it may be a small part of US railroading, but that’s only true when you look at mileage during the transition era. The antracite roads litteraly fuelled the industrial revolution in the US, providing the industrial basis, the necessary first stepping stone for the big trek West, later the ww2- and postwar boom, diminishing only in the 60’s.
More importantly from a modellers perspective, the antracite road’s camelbacks have always shared yards and depots with ANY big NE operation, from PRR to NH. In fact I dont think you can name one NE class 1 rr that did not share yards with antracite burning locos at any one point on the map. (correct me if i’m wrong)
You know what i think? I think most people think camelbacks are ugly. To be honest I didnt like them either, when I first saw them, when I was 12, in Don Ball’s ‘America’s Colorful Railroads’ - I thought they were stupid, not the real thing! LOL! Could they be just too much unlike the ‘classic’ appearance of a steam locomotive?
The reality is that manufacturers are a business not a hobby. Insufficient numbers of modelers want the relatively local engines of the Rdg, CNJ, L&NE, LV to warrant much in the way of equipment that can’t be lettered for something else also. A mold for an engine can cost over $200,000 today. How do you justify that kind of expense for an engine that will sell only a few compared to something else?. Remember that cost is only for the shell. Now you need details and a mechanism also and would the public pay for it? I’m sure anybody who wants to put up their money for a unique engine will be welcomed with open arms but $200,000 buys a lot of custome made equipment.
Mantua offered HO 2-8-2 and 4-6-2 camelbacks in the 90’s, don’t know if Model Power will be reissuing them in the future or not. I suspect you could find one on Ebay?? The later Mantua engines had Sagami can motors and overall run pretty nicely.
Your best bet is to either buy brass or kitbash. The old, non-Spectrum Bachmann 2-8-0 is a POS, but it’s the only game in town if you want to easily obtain a Wooten firebox. RMC just ran a two part series where a modeler scratchbuilt the firebox for a 2-8-2 kitbash, so it’s not that hard to do. Once you have the skills set for creating the correct boiler profile, the rest of the project to create an anthracite road steamer wouldn’t be that difficult. But, it would be very time-consuming, especially if you’ve got a big space and want to model Sayre, circa 1940.
There are LOTS of steamers that still need to be made. Huge roads like the NYC, IC, CB&Q, and GN have few, if any, non-brass steam available. And it’s NOT a matter of “local interest only”. The IC, for example, has two of the most famous trains on the planet: the City of NO and the Casey Jones wreck. The IC had over 500 mikes on it’s roster in 1950, and was one of the last roads to dieselize. How many correct IC steamers are there in current production? One. How many have EVER been made? Two.
Thankfully, with the advancements in rapid prototyping and new aluminum masters (only the steel master molds cost $200K; aluminium cost around $25K), short batching models will become the norm (isn’t it now?), so we’ll have the opportunity to see high-quality plastic steam coming out in a wider variety of prototypes. (I hope)
ndbprr, you could apply your logic to 3-truck shays just as well. Local engines, used only on a couple of tiny backwood stretches of track.
“The reality is…” that in this market, (as in many luxury consumer gadget market) supply drives demand more than the other way around, and MUCH more than in ‘classical’ markets like food. What do you really NEED? Food, shelter, not a NYC J1e with Elesco feedwater heater.
I bet a significant number of buyers of a BLI NYC J1e hadnt even heard of “J1e” before they saw one on the BLI website, then started to drool not necessarily because they model the NYC but because it is just a beautiful model. Then they did their research, and decided it was in fact a J1e with Elesco feedwater heater they would need. The next round of shopping would bring in some Walthers Budd and PS coaches.
Likewise, I think a camelback could very well be the next model, especially with some attention in the rr hobby press. It can be a 90% generic one, relettered and with minor differences (like how Bachmann Spectrum makes detail differences between heavy mountains for the different roads) on an already existing frame.
Ray, I’m with you there. In fact i was already looking at how to expand the Spectrum 2-8-0 firebox. I’ve never kitbashed (the supply, untill now, drove my demand! like hell!! ) but now looks like the right moment to do so. RMC is a magazine? Anyway not for sale in Holland…
RMC is an American abbreviation for Railroad Model Craftsman, a monthly magazine published by Carstens Publications in New Jersey. The articles that Ray is referring to ran in the September and October 2005 issues of that magazine: Modeling the Jersey Central Lines’ back-track behemoths, parts 1and 2, by Robert J. Davis. This particular kitbash started with a Broadway Limited USRA heavy Mikado. It’s a very interesting two articles.
