Hi,
I’m finally getting around to building some urban scenery. I want to have a city scene/passenger station over a small yard. Does anyone have ideas or pictures on what I can use to support the city scene? For instance, do you use stone walls or girders from a bridge kit? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
John
Many cities ‘elevated’ their RR track, some went underground.
I’m a little unclear about what you have in mind. Do you want an urban area built over hidden tracks or are the tracks going to be in the open with the urban scene above track level. I am incorporating both in my urban area. Part of the mainline will tunnel under the the urban scene as it enters a 3 track balloon staging area. The urban area will be built on a sheet of 3/4 inch MDF which is very heavy but also very strong and very flat. It doesn’t warp like plywood. The tracks emerge from the tunnel into a 4 track passenger station with an overhead concourse. The tracks are in the front half of the benchwork with the raised urban scene, including a large passenger station (Walthers Union Station) behind the tracks. A retaining wall will seperate the two levels. So that it won’t be one long straight retaining wall, it will angle back toward the backdrop on the far side of the passenger station and there will be track level structures beyond that. The retaining wall will angle back in front of and parallel to the backdrop and behind the track side structures. I have most of the lower level structures built but the raised level is still on the drawing board.
You might think of areas where the building simply couldn’t be relocated and an enclosed walkway is necessary; I know of one hospital that made it to at least to the mid-seventies with a switch and enough length to hold 2-3 short coal hoppers for its power plant. That style of heat & power probably didn’t survive but the necessity of crossing the track did and so did the siding.
The Art Institute in Chicago does very much the same; the Metra (ex-IC) electric lines run underneath the walkway.
Many major cities now have downtown walkway so people don’t have to deal with harsh temperatures: Edmonton and St. Paul come to mind.
Any of these would work in a situation where you are cramped for length and width of the layout but the “sky” (ceiling of your display room) is close to infinite for the normal scale-model trains.
Some of the poshest (and most expensive!!!) real estate in the universe is located along Park Avenue - over the approaches and throat of Grand Central Station - in New York City. The “bridge” is supported by about a gazillion steel H-beam pillars. The New York City subways are similar in design and construction.
The Waldorf-Astoria hotel is only one building among many which have their ‘basements’ filled with a 1:1 scale railroad.
OTOH, the railroad itself is totally invisible in that area.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
You could go this route.
Or perhaps this route.
Thanks so far guys. I think tomikawa has come pretty close to what I’m looking to do. I want the tracks exposed, I’m not sure if I want to use steel colums, concrete colums, stone retaining walls etc. Any ideas or pics would be great. I even thought about using several Chooch #8350 Double tunnel portal side by side, but I don’t think that would accomplish what I’m trying to do.
Thank you,
John
John …
This city has rock strata behind the tracks. It’s in a corner above the layout and is a background scene.
Garry
crjr, there are a couple of ways you can construct a RETAINING/RESTRAINING wall. You can, of course, use commercially available materials but, depending on how long this ‘small yard’ is going to be this can become a rather expensive proposition. Most commercially available wall material comes in 9 to 12 inch lengths - that’s 15 to 20 panels for a low 1000 foot long wall - and at a price running up to as much as five bucks or more per panel depending on what you want this can get a little expensive muy pronto!
You could, of course, just leave a bare dirt hillside but urban property tends to be rather valuable and it is unlikely, therefore, that the railroad would do that.
Your railroad could have opted to erect a concrete wall. I don’t know whether you have ever seen masons pour a concrete wall or not; what they do is construct a form out of plywood which has been treated with a releasing agent and then pour the concrete into the form; the plywood is removed as soon as the concrete has set. Concrete always squeezes into the gap between the plywood sheets and so these concrete walls always take on the casting of the plywood. Good old fashion styrene is excellent material for simulating concrete; be sure and score the surface to get the appearance of the plywood sheets.
Another solution is brick and there are several manufacturers who print brick sheeting which can be glued to basswood and which look great. Price is reasonable. Remember, however, that brick masonry - and stone masonry as well - is not cheap and your railroad may have blanched at erecting a brick or stone wall.
There is, however, a cheap way of producing a stone wall. Get yourself a shallow square plastic lid, purchase a 1 lb bag of Highball Products Scenic Rock/Stone and pour it into the lid MAKING SURE IT COVERS EVERYTHING. Mix yourself up a thing gruel of Hydrocal® and pour just enough into the lid to immerse your stones. Before th
To add a little flavor to the look, using a combination of concrete, steel I beam and other connector/ bridge levels be supported with the Central Valley girders. Using 3/4" MDF seems to be some way overkill. I don’t know just how large an area you plan on doing, but there are so many other options. Spots between trackage can be foundation for the sized buildings above, stonewall castings for any interior/ subterranian retaining walls. Support blocking can be hidden under some of those structures reducing any clearspans. I would usesheet styrene for shorter areas, especially elevated street, sidewalk and smaller buuildings. If something more substancial is required, quality 1/4" hardwood plywood, even aircraft grade would be my choice. If any of the lower trackage is yard, or has many turnouts, the upper city assembly needs to be removable in either interlocking puzzle fashion or as one piece. I would do the smaller sections, Some of the large buildings that will or can have a full foundation to the base should be laid first. support ledger/ beams can attach to any of these and perimeter verticals.
My club tossed about the idea to do this for a large station, but access to yard ladder and overall street access elevations made it impractical. So other options similar to what has been shown were done instead.
The elevated section was to be in the forground here at the city level
I model subways, so I’ve got an entire world down below my streets.
This is the station on one edge of my layout. The girders are Evergreen shapes, painted gloss black. The heavier “columns” are made of 1x2, wrapped in a Hydrocal casting I use for the tile walls of the subway. The roof of the subway is the same piece of 1/4 inch Masonite that forms the base for the urban scene above. To provide access to the tracks, this section is removeable.
This is a bit more of the interior detail, with more user-friendly lighting:
And this shot shows some of the details with the top removed:
Finally, here’s some “aerial photography” of the subway station with the top cover piece removed. This was taken before any of the interior lighting was installed. This is a better shot of the 1x2 columns and the Hydrocal tile walls.
Mister Beasley,
Where are the gum machines??? They averaged one per two platform columns in the 1950s. I bet I spent a hundred dollars on Chiclets during my high school years…[:-^]
Seriously, you’ve definitely copied the ‘feel’ of the Underground.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
EXAMPLE: Chicago. Different RR’s did different things, at different times.
I.C. built allong lake shore with landfill. C&NW entered town with elevated landfills, B&O came along @ river level, ATSF the IL. river valley, then elevated landfill, and entering downtown via girder bridges over street intersections. Others combined trackage into stations.
CM&StP came into town at ground (Des Plains River) level, joined the E/W C&NW tracks above ground, and diverged down to enter the (River level) Union Station
Electrics/ comuter rail/ Interurbans used ‘Elevated’ rail within city limits, or limited access ‘gooves’ below street level. It would appear that each munincipality had ‘rules’ they enforced.
I remember leaving LA on the El Cap. and staying below 25 MPH through town and @ street level.
Mr. Beasley…
All I can say is WOW!!! What a beaut’ man! And what a challenge… doing all that underground. Impressive… MORE pic’s please! Really, quite beautiful and gritty at the same time!
Brian
In Minneapolis, the Milwaukee Road depot and trackage was on the same level as the rest of downtown, while the Great Northern depot a block or two away was built at street level, but had it’s trackage down beneath it, built along the Mississippi River.
For urban modelling, any book or video you find by or about George Sellios’ FS&M would be a good place to start for ideas.
Many railroads make some good money by selling the “air rights” over downtown areas. Where the railroad preceeded the construction nearly all construction is on I beam and/or concrete foundations. However there are cases of railroads tunneling through cities. The PRR in Baltimore comes to mind as does the NYC from Grand Central in New York. However any construction in my mind would be "up"town rather than “Down” town.
In the 1950’s, after passenger service ceased and the depot became non-essential, the WM relocated its main through Hagerstown on an elevated right of way. This solved the decades old problem of street running, and at the same time eliminated a series of grade crossings at the town’s main east-west thoroughfare. Most of it is on an earthen fill, but the overpasses are of relatively modern concrete construction.
For my version of Hagerstown I reversed the situation, and have the roadways elevated above the railroad…
Lee