I went ahead and purchased a set. Figure I will give the track and cars to my nephew, who is a big Nascar fan (the same nephew I gave the postwar set with fastrack for Christmas last year.), and keep the engine for repaint. There is a branchline here in Kansas with a pretty simple paint scheme. Black trucks and fuel tank, Red body, and white handrails and lettering. Anyone else here into this set, if nothing else to repaint?
No interest here. But I’d love to see your repaint when you’re done.
Jim
50 years from now, someone will probably be trying to scratch the paint off of GP-38’s to see if they are super rare Nascar engines[:)]. Think pink…
You bring up an intersting point mpzpw3. Concerning the failure of the original pink “Little Girls” train set, Ron Hollander explained in so many words, most girls or “tomboys” who like trains probably wanted a train similar to their dad’s or brothers. No doubt Lionel sold some of those sets back then, but certainly not enough.
I applaud Jerry Calabrese’s efforts to expand the train market, and no doubt the NASCAR set was an attempt in that direction. Maybe more so, it was an effort to just sell some trains to folks who don’t normally buy trains.
BUT for the folks so inclined to buy a train set, I doubt a NASCAR train set will fit the bill. The Polar Express and Thomas sets probably go further in that direction, along with the Hogwarts sets. Although they aren’t “prototypical” trains, they are based on trains, and already have some exposure.
I for one, will never understand how the train company’s (outside of MTH) have mostly continued to ignore the largest current (or recent) Class A railroads in the US today. The northeastern US has always been the largest and most supportative area for toy train sales, and still is to my knowledge. Yet current lines that run in this area are almost totally ignored.
Any kid who might be intested in trains has probably seen a real train in CSX, BNSF, Norfolk Southern, and Conrail. And then there’s CN, KCS, Soo, Wisconson Central and Florida East Coast. And how about AMTRAK. Only UP and recently CP have been on Lionel starter sets. And WC on a regional set. I know from my experience at train shows with kids around, these current roads attract a lot of attention from the kids. A version of the NYC Flyer set done up in Norfolk Southern with their distinctive horse loco on the tender would certainly be as prototypical as a NASCAR set… and at least it would be recognizable as a train line.
I already have more than enough trains, so I have little interest in getting more trains - e
Interesting point!
Could this be due to copywrite fees required by the railroads? I’m not shure what $ is associated with these fees, but you mentioned outside of MTH, who went to court and won against paying to use the UP logos.
Kurt?
If you mean licensing fees, that was settled quite a while ago. Here is a link:
http://www.ogaugewatch.com/ogaugewatchcom/2006/11/insights_into_t.html#more
There are no charges for using the trademarks of the locomotive companies.
Regards,
John
Geez…how people’s opinions change[:P]. Last time I brought up the NASCAR stuff it was to report on an article in CTT that criticized how weak the loco was in that set. I got ripped pretty good for even saying that, even though it wasn’t my words. My wife is into NASCAR and likes Tony Stewart. So I bought her the Tony Stewart expansion pack. I’ll just use one of my NYC locos to pull it around. If the NASCAR GP9 was a higher quality unit, I probably would have bought the set for her. But I just don’t think it’s worth the money…even on sale.
Dep
mpz…that’s exactly what I was thinking 32 years ago when I purchased the Seaboard (?) Spirit of 76. By your estimates, 2026 will be the paydirt year for me. I’ll be 75, and if my memory is still functional I will be able to snap back at the naysayers “I told you so!” if they are still alive. Must make a note to keep the boxes pristine. Maybe that’s the ticket. [:)]
Deputy, we rip you because we love you. Must have been that time of the month when you posted the Nascar stuff. [:D]
Jack
I saw the Nascar set running with ALL the add on cars at a Detroit area train show and it seemed to be doing just fine. However I did not run it myself. It has two dc truck mounted motors,trainsound and horn,track and transformer. At $95.00 local that seems like a good deal to me.
Trainz has the expansion pak for $35 each, worth it just for the tracks and cars!
I’ve been thinking about the Kasey Kahne pak (or a couple of them…)
Most of the clowns that ripped on Dep aren’t posting here anymore. And as Martha says, “that’s a good thing”.
Jim
Dep, I do remember the CTT revue was pretty weak, and do think I remember your post. I didn’t reply, probably because, at the time, I had zero interest in this set. I think the set is cheap, poorly decorated, and over-priced, to say the least. That was, and is, my opinion. Hope I didn’t offend anyone with my perception of this set, but again, it is my perception.
Now, I’m looking at it this way: A loop of fastrack, that is guaranteed to be used, at $3.00 per section, which is what it sells for around here, unless you use a 40% off coupon at Hobby Lobby. 30 watt transformer, it will be used for some of my more stubborn accessories that require variable voltage. $20.00. That’s $56.00 right there. I purchased the set for $95.00 delivered. That gives me a $39.00 engine with sounds to play around with. I could use the cars to repaint into another roadname I like, but think my nephew will appreciate them as-is, so I’m not including them in my math.
If I didn’t have a use for the track, cars, and transformer, I would have passed on the set, even at $95.00. The only variable is the engine, which if it turns out to be as bad as the revue, I just lost $39.00[:)].
That’s a great analysis. If I used Fastrack I might come to the same conclusion. Even if you do end up losing $39.00 that will be nothing compared to the beating Lionel is taking for dumping these bad boys. [:O] If they are still in bankruptcy, I will be curious to see how their profit & loss is affected.
Regards,
John
That CTT review was the ‘luke-warm-i-est’ I’d seen in ages. But at this price, I’m thinking of getting it as a gift for a Junior fan who’s retiring in a few months.
Great point, but I wonder if Lionel is really taking a beating on these? I’m probably wrong, but I’ve seen a lot of items with a similiar amt. of plastic, electronics, and electric motors in the $30.00 price range. I don’t know what Lionel paid to have these produced and imported, but I’m thinking a lot less than $299.00, and probably a lot less than $95.00 if the truth were known. Please remember this is my opinion, and I’m not trying to start a brand war or anything.
By what I could research on the web, Lionel lost $6.4 million in 2007. This includes extraordinary costs pertaining to bankruptcy and various litigation matters. However, the company had gross sales of $62.3 million and net sales of $59.3 million. Since Lionel is a private company it does not routinely report financial data. The only data that are available is what is reported to the bankruptcy judge. As a result, we do not know what the cost of goods sold is for the company. However, the $3 million difference between gross and net represents discounts/returns.
The question for 2008 is with the NASCAR blowout, how large will discounts/returns be? Obviously the larger the number, the more impact it will have on the already fragile finances of the company.
Regards,
John
Well, I couldn’t find any Junior expansion outfits on sale. He must still be popular… [;)]
Deputy,
I don’t think we were busting on you, but rather the flawed marketing decision at Lionel to apply the NASCAR license to toy trains. And yes, to apply it to cheaply made toy trains at that. Just because a particular brand is popular to a group of people, that doesn’t mean that extending said brand to toy trains is going to make the trains popular.
A couple of cases in point:
The Lionel/MPC “Lifesavers” tank car. It worked because “Lifesavers” come in a roll mimicking the shape of a tank car, and the tank car while albeit not prototypical WAS reminiscient of a roll of “Lifesavers”.
On the other hand, the Lionel, LLC “Norman Rockwell” set, or the Bachmann set featuring the “art” of that “artist of light” dude DID NOT make marketing sense, as their was NO CREDIBLE tie-in between the train and the art/artist. If Norman Rockwell or that “artist of light” dude (sorry, I can never remember his name) were famous for making paintings of trains, or even famous for shipping their art ON trains, there might have been a tie-in…
Jon [8D]
As a seasoned train guy, I would say to all of you just getting started (or recently started), or to any one thinking of attempting some repaints, GO FOR IT!
Yes, I recall the CTT review too. The cars were criticized for their lackluster or cheap decoration, and the loco was criticized for the gears being tight. BUT at these blowout prices, THEY ARE A GREAT DEAL. The loco can easily be improved even with the tight gearing (should you happened to get one like that). This loco is the same one in current Lionel starter sets like the Canadian Pacific, and the recent Southern, Santa Fe and Chessie diesel freight sets.
As pointed out above, with the FasTrack included, the add-on packs are a good deal at the reduced prices. When I first re-started in the hobby, I bought a good number of complete train sets including a good number of K-Line sets. The extra track and transformers came in very handy. And at the good prices I paid, I didn’t mind repainting.
My only point, is now that I have lots of trains, I personally am holding off now for trains that are already done in roads I actually want… which will really limited my new train purchases if Lionel and the others continue as they recently have.
PS: If any of you guys are going to repaint, decals are getting harder to find for 0 scale. Microscale is dropping a good many 0 scale decals. Here’s some handy links from your local CTT Forum repaint expert… I’ve used everything here and so I can endorse all below.
http://www.mgdecals.com/frtlistbystk.htm A great line up of decals mostly in midwest and northeast lines. Some nice milk car sets and some modern sets too.
http://primemoverdecals.com/dcaltemp.html?code=1&field=EL Mostly EL decals in HO, but I’ve hearned to mix-and-match when it comes to scale. Large H
UPS delivered the Nascar set today. I haven’t had much time to play with it, but do have some observations:
$299.00? Absolutely Not! This set is as cheap as they come. I will stand behind my previous thought that Lionel is probably still making a profit at $90.00 a set. I’m a big MPC fan, and this is the first time I have seen a 6464-style boxcar with a plastic frame. I’d take a MPC-era 9400-9700 boxcar anytime over this one. All the cars will need weight added before being passed on to my nephew.
The fastrack and transformer all look alright. I don’t have time right now to test the transformer, but it feels sturdy. Too sturdy for just 30 watts. I feel it is a waste of time to make a 30 watt transformer using a 80 watt case. The case is solid, and should have more wattage for its heft.
Engine: I do have to say, the graphics on the engine look pretty nice, if your into the Nascar thing. Both the cab-ends are bent down, and doubt that is due to shipping. A pair of needlenose pliers fixed the problem. The frame is made of “treadplate” which looks okay, also. I did a quick test on my upper loop, which is pretty much an O-31 starter loop, powered by a modern ZW with one 180 watt brick powering the loop. A LOT of voltage is required to get it moving, and top speed doesn’t send the engine off the rails, as per the CTT review. I don’t know if “break-in” will change that, but I don’t really feel that speed is a negative. I haven’t lubed it up, and the gears appear to be dry, so 10 laps is about all I did at this time.
Engine Sounds: I am starting to feel bad about my negative opinion of the Atlas Industrial Rail Atlantic! Diesel trainsounds seems to be pretty much static. If you listen real close, you can hear some diesel sounds. Horn and bell are acceptable, coming from a toy train guy. A lot of complaining goes on about MTH proto-1 diesel sounds, but I wish this engine had P-1 sounds. Not a big deal, as I probably will turn the volume