I have built my fair share of BB kits. I enjoy the hands-on work, but time is an issue some times and RTR is a real blessing. I also get a little pived when I run into the rich guys visiting the LHS and saying " Your not a REAL model railroader unless you buy BRASS kits or ready to finish BRASS models". I for one don’t have that kind of discretionary mony to spend just on motive power.
I enjoy the Steam Era and I buy mostly Spectrum DCC ready RTR when I can and an occasional Atlas. As I get older, the old eye sight becomes an issue when assembling fine detail that some models require, thus RTR is a great way to get the detailed models I wish I could build.
They don’t make either RTR or kits for either the California Western or the Northwestern Pacific in the 1917 era. So if I want something I have to customize it. Kits are easier to customize. I have nothing against RTR, but I have no use for them either.
Am I annoyed by folks putting RTR down? Yup. Even though I prefer to build kits and would love to scratchbuild everything I need - if I had the time and the talent, there is a place for RTR. Just like there is a place for kits, scratchbuilt, kitbash etc etc. There’s a place for fine running highly detailed brass engines and a place for Tyco (yeah I know - someone will say the trash heap). There’s a place for DCC and DC.
What annoys me are the folks that think everything other than what they personally use/do is somehow less than model railroading. Why is it that it is not “model” railroading unless the locomotive is a kit? Why can that person be a model railroader when he/she uses RTR track under the locomotive built from a kit? Isn’t the track the essence of what defines a railroad? Where can we find the reference which says how much RTR you are allowed to have before you are not a model railroader? In that regard - what is a locomotive kit? Bowser? Athearn? Proto? Is sticking on grab irons enough to qualify a model as a kit or does one have to go so far as to actually wind the wire on the armature of the motor? Where is the dividing line? I think what will be found is that those that say that you have to build kits in order to be a model railroader will say that the “kits” they assemble are kits and anything with a lesser number of parts is not.
Who is more a “model railroader” - the guy that builds only Bowser type locomotive kits and uses RTR track, shake the box rolling stock and structures, or the guy who uses RTR locomotives and rolling stock but handlays every inch of track, scratchbuilds every building and concentrates on realistic operations?
Along the same lines - it seems that another popular pasttime is to call anything less expensive than what one runs “junk” and anything more expensive than what one runs as “things for those that have more money than brains.”
As far as I am concerned, and this is just my opinion of course, if a perso
I am sure any number divided by itself is one for all but zero, then it is infinity. But it has been a few years since leaving University. I remember something about using this in design a forth order Chebychev Filter (Excuse the spelling!)
Back to the real topic, I find no problem with RTR, the Athearn locomotives are really well detailed now! I am going flat out to wire my layout, so to get a well detailed RTR loco is fine by me, I don’t have time to sit down and detail a locomotive from a kit.
The cost is another issure, I can pick up a RTR far cheaper than a Kit and adding all the detail. I know there is a great deal of satifaction in detailing a loco but at the moment I am trying to get a layout going and then I will be doing scenery. When I am finished I might go back to a kit!
Doing a little research seems to suggest that dividing by zero is “inderterment” instead of “infinity.” Perhaps Brunton can fill us in on what he is thinking about.
I prefer kits but sometimes RTR is the only way to go for specific locos or rolling stock and repainting and redecaling aren’t very viable options either (hard to get and expensive decals,intricate paint schemes). Yes I have heard the do it yourself and learn the skills mantra of some of the local fanatics also.
I’m a smart, gifted and talented individual, and can build, assemble or repair just about anything you put in front of me - or at least I’ll try. However, I don’t put other people down because they can’t. It took many years of trial and error for me to learn what I know and develop my skills. We’re not all put together exactly alike. I also buy RTR any time I can.
Yep, I too sometimes get a little annoyed. I do wi***here were more kits though, or semikits if you will. Let me ask this question, what is a model railroad?? Is a kit or scratch built detailed UP Challenger in a sealed case setting on a desk or fireplace mantle a model railroad? No, it’s just a model locomotive. A model railroad consists of track, locos, cars, scenery, lighting, and so on. It’s how we utilize all these things to make a model railroad. If it’s so important to kit build a locomotive to qualify it for this, then why not say that ready to use sectional or even flex-track does not qualify. It’s rediculous, Ken
I’m a smart, gifted and talented individual, and can build, assemble or repair just about anything you put in front of me - or at least I’ll try. However, I don’t put other people down because they can’t. It took many years of trial and error for me to learn what I know and develop my skills. We’re not all put together exactly alike. I also buy RTR any time I can.
Tracklayer
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Guys like us can take the bull by the horns and build kits,repair locomotives add details etc.
Sadly my friend modelers like us are a dying breed seeing how most modelers whine on forums about a minor problem that can be easily fix or a missing detail part(s) that can easily be added by using a after market detail part(s).
What a lot of younger and some older modelers don’t know would fill volumes.What they do know would fill a small booklet yet they think their selves a “expert” by assembling those kits or reading layout books.You see by assembling a few shake the box kits or building a layout from a book plan does not make a modeler.How do I know this? Just look at the simple no brainer questions being ask today that just a few years ago we would have been to embarrass to ask and would look up the answer or better figure the answer out on our own.Of course I am never sure if its laziness or what with today’s modelers…
Being a modeler involves a lot more then kit vs RTR…Just as soon as modelers figure that out we will have more modelers and less whiners regardless of age and skill level…
No, it doesn’t annoy me anymore. It’s a hobby, it’s supposed to give me enjoyment and a release from the real world. Any hobby you find, RC planes ( don’t build a Piper, do a Biplane), Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge, Steam vs Diesel, whatever, everyone will have a opinion on what they see is “Holy Grail” of a hobby. Do what you enjoy, I was in a hobby shop one time and was asked by another customer “why do I model the SOO Line and not another railroad”. Life is full of choices, make the one that makes you happy.
Actually, that’s the tricky thing. In some fields of higher matheimatics the definition that any number divided by itself equals one is “superior” to the rule that any number divided by zero is undefined. So the correct answer to zero divided by zero equals one. That’s one definition used in some higher mathematical fields. But usually it’s just considered indeterminate.
Well this thread took off quickly. Spend a day away from the PC and look what happens.
Each to there own. If you want R to R get them, if not don’t. Simple really? But why the emotion?
First of all I think it is worth differentiating between Loco’s and Rolling Stock. All but one of my freight cars are kits. Most of my pasenger cars are R to R (nearly minus grabs), virtually all my Loco’s are R to R except one.
My one and only Loco kit is an old Roundhouse kit that was quite challenging for me and in the end did not yield very satisfying results. I have a few Athearn BB, but these are not really kits in the sense that you have to build the drive line etc. So I am a confirmed purchaser of R to R locootives and really would not consider otherwise.
Freight cars is a whole different story for me, and I think it is in the realm of freight cars that much of the emotion regarding R to R has occured in the past. I love kits, I make kist with my kids and derive a great deal of my modelling pleasure from freight car kits.
First a few obervations:
R to R freight cars are here to stay and are in demand.
Kits are still available from several manufacturers. Athearn, Accurail, Red Caboose Branchline etc.
Kits are much less available now then they were.
Here in lies the problem and the source of much of the emotion. If you are a kit builder it is much harder to buy what you want than it used to be. The selection at the store is dramatically reduced for lower cost simpler kits. For a long time post the Horizon acquisition of Athearn and Roundhouse there were many rumors that kits from these two companies were dead. We now know this is not true, but they are not available in nearly the selection or the qualntity as before. Has anyone seen a freight car kit announcement from P2K since the Walthers acquisition?
So from the kit makers stand point, something we love is seeminly threatened. They may
As a software writer, one thing I know for sure is that ANY quotient logic that attempts to perform a division by zero, will cause the application to crash![:D]