First let me point out that I pre ordered the items that I’m about to describe.
Thus this is a post about thier strange display [:(]
First of all I looked for the Christmas catalog and was told that they had none? However I bought one from a vedor.
Here are a few items I preordered:
Girls Lavender Archive Fort Knox Mint Car (The body was on display with no silver bars, glass, wheels or bottom [:O] JUST THE SHELL ???
Girls Archive N&W Quad Hopper (Again no wheels JUST THE SHELL ???
Halloween Handcar was assembled however the two figures wern’t even painted :eek: Why ???
These are only 3 of the items as there were many more like this! Think they would have borrowed parts from another Mint Car to make a nice display ?
Even the hopper ??? All it needed was wheels !
Or the Halloween Handcar ! Have someone paint the figures [:(]
Over all I was disappointed and thought thier display wasn’t that great …
IMO they could have done better…
Seriously, I think Lionel is focused on venues and audiences other than York. I think they just make a token appearance there. The starter sets and associated rolling stock and accessories seem to be their primary focus. And if the latest earnings report is any indicator, they are doing the right thing in that regard.
I’m with Jim on this one, or flip the coin - he’s with me. [:D]
I wasn’t at YORK this year, but common sense would seem to say that as long as Lionel was, that they would have a display worthy of their status. Most of us understand mock-ups have long been used. But as the final products have become more sophisticated (and techniques/technology for making mock-ups has improved), one would think Lionel would have somewhat more finished products on display.
BUT I have long felt YORK is over-rated, It is a big show, fun and important to some degree. But not nearly as much as some think. Given most of Lionel’s sales are generated during the pre-CHRISTmas months, and much of this is from starter sets and related items, one might conclude YORK isn’t as important to Lionel’s well-stated goals as the die-hard scale enthusiasts seem to feel.
Anyone who has attneded in recent years can see clearly the age divide in attendance. YORK is mostly older, greying, wealthy and retired… and retired with generous pension benefits as many of us will not be in the years to come. This age group is NOT the future of the hobby, evne though the other forum might have you think it is. Neither are more excessive high end products or Legacy the future of the hobby, despite Clyde Coil’s pontifcations that Legacy will make the hobby more fun for familes. NO. Not until Legacy comes with starter sets at the same price point they’re at now. Not likely given the millions Lionel probably has in it now.
Until Lionel comes out of official bankruptcy, I’m sure we’ll see the continued cost cutting, like with lack of advertising. But Lionel has their web site, catalogs and more public retail exposure than they’ve had in some time. This is where the new customers are… at Target and places of the like, and not at YORK. Not until YORK becomes open to anyone, and the emphasis turns to low end products, kid friendly displays and interactive product
Well spoken Brian, I agree with most everything you say. York will always be there for the old collectors and hi end operators but the real thrust of the hobby will be on the youth. Until York opens its doors to the public to draw them in and changes from boxed collectables to operating layouts and trains youth can touch, it will slowly, but ever so surely, get smaller and smaller and become of less importance to the manufactuer. This may take a decade or so but it will eventually happen.
I wouldn’t call it weird, but it did have a kinda plain brown wrapper appearance. The layout appeared to be in its infancy stage, without scenery. They had new product up on wall displays, but in a word—lacking.
Ross was doing a booming business at York, They were located right behind me and their booth was jumping for the whole show. They’ve got a new high speed cross over switch, turntable and transfer table. They are also expanding into Standard Gauge Track.
“Until York opens its doors to the public to draw them in and changes from boxed collectables to operating layouts and trains youth can touch, it will slowly, but ever so surely, get smaller and smaller and become of less importance to the manufactuer. This may take a decade or so but it will eventually happen.”
I wish you guys would give it a rest and just start your own seven building show somewhere!!
trigtrax, Brent:::: thanks for the good reports on Ross and Gargraves…With input like this, I feel that I can make better choices when making my purchases…again, thanks BDT
BDT - ROSS was the presence in track…Huge display, lots of product- lots of attendants there to answer questions. The Gargraves “phonebooth” was hard to find. Make your own conclusions…
TCA is a non-profit group under Pennsylvaina law. TCA York is operated by the Eastern Division, a Club, for the Club Members only. Attendence in this week’s show was well over 14,000, a further gain, with 400 “guests” who received applications.
Lionel’s display was about the same size as usual, but combined Lionel and K-Line. Few new products were shown.
MTH display was huge with lots of new products with ??? delivery dates. You know them.
The Atlas display took tons of room, it was as big as K-Line alone once had.
A great and successful show, 3 halls of Manufactures and Dealers, 1 Hall of operating layouts, 4 halls of Member Tables selling as in a big tag sale, State Fair food carts all over the place.
“ROSS was the presence in track…Huge display, lots of product- lots of attendants there to answer questions. The Gargraves “phonebooth” was hard to find. Make your own conclusions.”
I think sometimes TCA members (of which I am one) lose track of perspective. A significant number of three railers and toy train fans show up at York, but it’s only about 15% of the active members of the hobby, albeit some of the most active and high spending. On the other hand, this is tiny cottage industry, with the largest player, Lionel, having revenues of about 60 million a year, which is tiny even by local, not to mention national or international standards. Thus the resources available to these companies for marketing, booths, etc. are quite limited. Companies like Ross and Gargraves, at most, do business in the high hundreds of thousands or low millions of dollars per year, and that guess may be on the high side.
Here’s my take. Lionel, particularly while constrained by bankruptcy, spent its limited marketing revenues this last year on national visibility displays and newbies to the hobby, with layouts in Macy’s, Grand Central Station, and placement of their products in Target and other mainstream retailers. Lionel is by far the best recognized name in this hobby and most of its fans do not go to York, nor need York to promote their interest in Lionel’s products. Would I like to see a glitzier Lionel exhibit at York? Sure. Does it affect my purchases of Lionel products that their exhibit is mundane and unglamorous? Not in the least, and I’m sure I’m typical of long time Lionel operators/collectors. What about MTH? Well, they’re a distant number two in the industry now, not the technical innovator nor the one the public or long-time collector/operator knows about since childhood. The
[;)][:)]