After seeing how good this turned out http://cs.trains.com/forums/1526079/ShowPost.aspx im thinking out picking up one of these kits and kitbashing a DM&IR yellowstone. Found most the the detail parts i need, just want to know if anyone has done this before with a big boy model? Pics would be nice.
Compare photo,s of a “Yellowstone” and a later “Cabforword”. I believe the “SP” ran Yellowstones or something close with sky line casing. I think a Cabforword would make a better kit bash. If you do this kit bash, post photo,s . HAVE FUN!!!
That would work but for 2 reasons im not going to use a cab forward. A. the big boy im gonna use is a $25 revelle static kit (just going to be a display peice) and I dont feel like spending $200 plus on a cab forward. B. ive got 2 friends that would oppose this, one already dosent like me messing with a big boy, and both are SP fans so id hate to think what would happen if i told them i was gonna cut up a cab forward [:-^] Plus the big boys close enough to me, just plan on adding the correct style headlight, removing the numberboards, modifying the piolet truck, adding a feedwater heater and air pumps on the smokebox door and some paint and thats about it.
I have the exact same project partially completed. The kit I’m using is the same but when under the Monogram name. The thing I did that you haven’t mentioned is that the tender is welded on the Yellowstone. I removed all the rivet detail from the tender. Under the Monogram name they made the kit with DMIR details and decals.
I haven’t figured out posting yet as I’m new in digital photography but if you will send me an e-mail address by PM I will take some pics of what I have completed and send them to you.
Doug
Okay, let me chime in here. First of all, trying to turn an ALCO Big Boy into a BALDWIN Yellowstone is going to be at best, a head-shaker. And trying to turn a BALDWIN Cab-forward into a BALDWIN Yellowstone is going to be even wierder.
The DM&IR Yellowstones were NOT based on the SP Cab-Forwards, they were based on the Baldwin Western Pacific 251 oil-burning class 2-8-8-2’s. The reason for the four-wheel trailing truck on the Missabe M3-4 Yellowstones was not for an extended firebox, since the firebox was actually slightly smaller and much more efficient than the WP locos, but to support a large, all-weather cab. The WP locos had about 135,000 lbs TE (locomotive ‘horsepower’ was only coming into vogue at that time) and the Missabe ended up with about 145,000 lbs TE due to a more effective and newer construction than the WP steamers. The Missabe Yellowstones had 63" drivers, like both the SP AC’s and WP 251’s, and were built for a specific reason–to haul heavy ore loads up and down grades that approached 2% without helpers. That they were successfully borrowed by other railroads during WWII (Rio Grande, NP, GN, WP) for general service when the Lakes were frozen over, attests to their general success both on and off line. Baldwin built 18 of these beauties for the Missabe.
ALCO built 25 Big Boys, and structurally and cosmetically, the two locos couldn’t be more different. The BB’s had 68" drivers, a larger firebox to burn more inefficient western coal, a four-wheel leading truck to sustain the loco at speed (they were built for speeds of up to 80 mph) and a boiler confirguration totally unlike the Baldwin Yellowstones. The BB’s were in effect, more powerful and larger versions of their cousins, the UP Challengers. At 140,000 lbs TE, they were 5,000 lbs ‘lighter’ than the Baldwin Yellowstones, though they could handle th
[(-D] I figured someone would chime in and bring up all the diferences. Its just gonna be a quick representation, im not really a big DM&IR fan so im not gonna fret over all the diferences. For $25 plus some extra brass details its close enough.
Matt–
Hey, after all my Gloom and Doom posting, I’d like to see what you come up with. Seriously.
Go for it. [:D]
Tom [:)]
I’m waiting on MTH for my Yellowstone…
Phil
(still waiting for MTH to release a DM&IR Yellowstone)
If you start with a Big Boy, you WON’T end up with a DM&IR Yellowstone. At best, you’ll end up with something that looks like a Norfolk and Western Class A on steroids.
Of course, in some alternate universe, the DM&IR might have had some reason to wheel ore trains across the flatlands at 69MPH (instead of climbing and descending staircase grades) and ALCO might have sold them a Class A on steroids to handle that assignment. Note that the N&W equivalent (coal drags) got low-speed low-drivered Mallets, not Class A power. (Chessie assigning 2-6-6-6s to coal drags was a gross mis-use of a high speed high horsepower locomotive!)
If you do make the conversion, have fun - and let us all see the result.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with articulateds that never were)
I have an ancient AHM/Rivarossi cab forward that I bought as part of the good old AHM $10.00 “Funeral Sale/Roundhouse Rubble” sales from the late 1960s, early 1970s (anyone else remember those?). So I have, perhaps, $2 invested in this engine. And it runs fine; the tender is missing its trucks and some details are snapped off but otherwise it is intact, huge flanges and all. I have from time to time considered kitbashing it into something that vaguely resembles a Yellowstone DM&IR. The cab obviously would have to go (but as part of the Roundhouse Rubble sales I have cabs from Y6bs, IHB 0-8-0s, USRA, Hudsons, and plenty else besides), the entire front end would need to be rebuilt (and the electrical connection to the tender re-routed), and a fair number of other details would have to be filed off or just lived with as wrong. But in general outline it is “close” – unless it was put next to an accurate model or a photo of the prototype. I was able to score a Big Boy AHM tender (which again is not 100% for a Yellowstone but close enough) for $5 at a swap meet so that aspect is addressed.
I always intended on doing this and giving it to the courtesy van driver at the auto dealer where I take my car in, as he loves the DM&IR and HO but has no money to spend on his hobby.
But so many projects take priority. And at the end of the day, I’d have at best a fairly crude approximation of a Yellowstone, with huge flanges, old and dried out rubber traction tires, and cheese slicing flanges.
Dave Nelson
Dave and all: As the owner of three brass Missabe Yellowstones, it is my fervent hope that SOMEONE will come out with an affordable model of this beautiful beast. With almost every posting of ‘wish-lists’ in the past four or five years on this forum, those gorgeous locomotives seem to lead the “Are You Listening To Us” pleadings to the manufacturers when it comes to new steam locos.
The fact that this locomotive isn’t available in a reasonably priced plastic model just boggles my mind. And arguments that there were only 18 of these locos built for a regional ore-hauling railroad don’t hold any water at all. During WWII, they spent as much time off-line as on-line, on railroads such as Rio Grande, Great Northern, Northern Pacific, and even reputedly on the Western Pacific. And the crews all agreed that they were the just about the best-operating steam locomotives that they ever ran. They ran more mileage in more varied territory and on more railroads than the Big Boys ever thought of. They were certainly one of Baldwin’s ‘Finest Hours.’
SOMEBODY out there has to be listening! [:O]
Tom [:)]
Tom
As you already know, the EM1, M3 or M4 and the AC12 Cab Forwards were all Baldwin built in the same era and share a lot of drive componets overall. Both Laird and cross head slides are used, but they all shared the 63" Baldwin drivers and other parts. If BLI or MTH or anyone built any of the three, they could offer all of them with the basic drive system and specific parts for each model. The boiler and appliances are different, but not so much in size as the arrangement. The tenders are all different but the basic Baldwin drive parts could cut tooling cost on these three great models.
i would certainly like to see all three of these great locomotives offer
The A’s were used for every type of service on the N&W. Sorry to tell you this, but the mainline coal drags were A class powered with Y helpers east to Norfolk. I have many pictures taken myself in 56 and not one Y was used for the head end power on the Eastbound coal trains. Once the helpers were cut off East of Roanoke, the A’s would move those 160 plus car trains at a rather fast clip to the docks. The Y’s were used on coal trains also, but the A’s were the mainstay power for moving coal across Virginia to the docks. I also have pictures of Jawn Henry that summer as helper power out of Roanoke. It was a time to remember.
CZ
There are many reasons to visit the Lake Superior RR Museum in Duluth MN, which really has a large, nice, and varied collection. The Yellowstone is just one of those reasons.
http://www.lsrm.org/Home/Home.asp
Dave Nelson
I got to visit the museum about four years ago and pushed the run button to watch the DM&IR 2-8-8-4 with sound run on the rollers. It is great to see it run even if it is only on rollers.
CZ
One of the saddest things I’ve seen is old #229 M4 sitting in Two Harbors, MN, rusting away next to the ore dock. It was a beautiful loco once upon a time and it certainly deserves a better fate.
the goat
There’s a stuffed and mounted Yellowstone at the Proctor Golf Course. You can stand on the clubhouse porch and look over the locomotive to the Proctor yards. I passed through about 18 years ago, but a look at Google Maps indicates that it’s still there.
Interesting thing, to me, was that the jacket and lagging had been removed, and the exposed boiler shell had been painted with weather-resistant paint. You could see just how many staybolts there were in the firebox, and how closely spaced they were.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Rather a lot, I would think! All rigid, or were there flexible stays in the breaking zones?
At a guess, approximately 4" centres?
Cheers,
Mark.
I know this is necroposting but i got caught up in the thread & i gotta know DID ANYBODY complete this
Kitbash ???
I recall an article in Trains mag years ago by long time Missabe Road employee Frank King, that spoke of these beauties. Very well written and informative, it also covered earlier articulateds (2-8-8-2 or 2-8-8-0, can’t recall offhand). Anyway, King stated that the Rio Grande absolutely loved the Yellowstones and considered them the best engines to ever run on the line.
Just repeating what he said. I do gather that they were indeed excellent locos By all accounts.
Benny P