A cool idea for “cut and cover”, I wonder what the mayor would say?[swg][swg][swg]
I know you were just thinking of modeling, but its fun to think BIG sometimes.[:D]
I think the Chicago El & Subway would be extremly cool to model. 90% of it is above Ground & you would have to model Wrigley Field into it also. It would take forever but it would be very cool when done.
Trying to beat the Chicago model in the Museum of Science & Industry would be hard indeed–most of the models of the El are small, maybe 6-10 feet, because city modeling and El modeling are very, very labor intensive!
Thanks for pointing me in the direction of this thread, Elliot.
Thanks to MTH, most of us New York Subway fans now model in O, because it was the only scale with readily available subways. They’ve produced 8 different sets to date, with several more in the works. While the size and lack of space makes it difficult, and HO would have been better - most of us are so deep in now it’s too late to turn back just because Proto finally stepped up to the plate. There are those out there that have been doing it in HO for years - all scratchbuilt. Check out this site, and go to the Layouts page.
In the '40s and '50s I was living on the fifth floor of an apartment in Queens NY within eyesite and earshot of the elevated portion of the I.R.T. subway that is a 4-track main with both local and express tracks w/ stations approx every 8-10 streets (we called them blocks). Some of the stations were local only stops and the express trains really ripped through those stops. Shortly after tunneling under the East River from Manhattan the trains would emerge into the 'aboveground ’ on a fairly steep grade and cross most of Queens going underground just short of Flushing-the end of the line. I remember very tight curves and switches as well as complicated trackage-crossovers, etc. The tracks ran near the sites of the N.Y. World’s Fair and Shea Stadium. But what I most remember was the proximity to PRR’s Sunnyside Yards and the massive Subway shops & storage tracks closer to Flushing in Corona. believe there was an overpass of the Long Island RR at approx. 72nd St. in Jackson Heights but the mind is fuzzy on that point. The trains ran every few minutes and were incredibly noisy. One could incorporate hidden staging tracks at each end of a layout design (no need for reverse loops) and model the entire system that was ‘aboveground’ This line is still in operation and the 4 track main is still in use. Now if you could even include a bit of the Sunnyside Yard too. . .The Long Island City area was fairly industralized back then; and probably still is. . . (Haven’t been back there in years,) Proto 1000 cars may actually be modeled after the I.R.T. cars in use for several decades but I haven’t seen them up close. There were similar ‘aboveground’ portions of the NYC subway system in Brooklyn and I think in upper Manhattan and the Bronx. At one time there were elevated subways all over the NYC area, esp in Manhattan, but they were removed 50 or more years ago. They used really ancient equipment, not at all like the Proto 1000 models, along 2nd and 3rd avenue in Manhattan-remember not enjo
Wow Bill, quite some info here!
as I started this topic I was just curious how a subway layout would look, but your idea
about the maintenace and storage yard, the elevated track, steep grades and very tight curves and switches. may be a nice addition to a layout, put it in a corner the maintenace facility on an elevated piece of the lay-out, continuing on elevated track and with a steep curved grade the tracks vanish below ground underneat the rest of the lay-out.
could give a nice perspective in a city lay-out.
I guess the curve-radius for these subway trains could be much closer as for the normal modelrailroad.
LUPO
LUPO - thanks for comment re; my post. Brought back memories of my first ten years growing up in NYC. Check out the recommended websites referred to earlier in this ‘topic’ , esp www.nycsubway.org An incredible amount of useful and fascinating info and tremendous photo archive. Saw pics of IRT, BMT & IND cars I rode, the station at 82nd St/Jackson Heights on Flushing Line where I used to sneak under the turnstyle when I was 7 or 8 to meet my Dad on the platformh when he was coming home from work in Manhattan. There is a good section on the (Hudson) ‘Tubes’ now PATH trains we used to take to Hoboken when it was too cold to take the ferry. There’s even a bit of my old apartment building peaking over the tops of some IRT cars in the 82nd St station; can actually see my old kitchen window! My wife yawned when I showed it to her. . .Anyway thanks for introducing this topic - brought back good memories. Bit more obtuse trivia-there was at least one, possibly more, model railroad shops in shopping arcades in subway station underground. May have been at Times Square or Grand Central Subway Station. . .
If you want a system with variety, try modeling the downtown Philadelphia area. In addition to an El, you have subway-surface trolleys which partially parallel the el, until they both cross a total subway line, at which point the subway surface loops around both underground lines for the return trip. The subway surface line has two exits beyond the el with the trolley going off in a total of three different direction.
Add to this confusion, there is a commutor tunnel near the center city intersection where full size commutor trains run. The PRR and Reading railroads had separate downtown terminals. The tunnel connects these formerly separate lines so that the trains now run through center city rather than reversing themselves to back out in the same direction.
I’m planning a subway, loosely modelled on Boston. I got the Life-like R-17’s last week for the heavy rail part, and I’ll be looking for a PCC-type trolley for the light rail, although I’ll probably by non-prototype-compliant and run them over the same lines. Most of the tracks will be underground and invisible, but the stations will be seen edge-on from the side of the layout, with buildings above. I’ve got to think a bit more about access, though.
Eventually, I want to add an engine-cam video to the front car, so the tunnel and subway station scenery will be “seen” from the motorman’s perspective. Part of the challenge is mass-producing “scenery” for the inside of the tunnels.
Yeah, it’s a dream, but the lumber for the benchwork is out in the garage, the R-17’s are up in the family room on a test track (they’re sweet) and my first passengers are in transit on a UPS truck from rocousa.com.
I wish lifelike would make more subway trains, like chicago’s El trains, or even an MBTA red line train. Era wouldn’t matter, but the newer bombardier cars would be pretty cool…
For modelling Boston trolleys, there are two invaluable photo books in the Images Of America series published by Arcadia:
- Trolleys Under The Hub
- Boston In Motion
If you’re in the Boston area, a number of bookstores are likely to have these in stock – Globe Corner Bookstore downtown, Borders up by the malls in Danvers.
Great inspiration!
For a different approach check out this fun T-Trak module:
http://www.t-trak.org/TH-Euro1.html
http://www.geocities.com/kidat50/index.html
I will be doing some chicagish modeling including some EL work, no subway, but I plan on some representative model of the freight tunnels, I found the HOn3 mine train which will work fine, but the chicago tunnels were 2 ft, oh well… 8-}
I was about to fire a question as to why no one seems to models mass transit systems in NY or Chi? I think the above ground (EL) would be a great system to model, lots of buildings,lots of action in the streets,even have a bit of semi-country out in the burbs. What about the elevation bridge system itself? are these girders and associated above- street -platform works available, as you would need a pile of them? And, what about authentic models of the trains themselves, readily available? thanks.
Hi Lupo,
You could model something closer to home - the London Underground - a lot of which is overground!! What many people don’t realise is the the London Underground is really two networks - the sub-surface lines (like the Circle, District and Metropolitan lines) which run with large-profile stock just under the surface and the tube lines (like the Bakerloo, Central, Piccadilly, Victoria and Nortern lines) with small-profile stock running in tubes deep underground. On some parts of the system both large and small profile stock share the same lines - like the Distrci and Piccadilly between Acton Town and Ealing Common.
Underground modelling in the UK is starting to gather intererst - it’s still a niche market so production is low and prices correspondingly higher but it’s something different. Look at the website www.metromodels.net
Keith
I’ve got an HO subway that runs twelve scale miles under my backyard. Of course no one ever sees it because it’s a subway.[:D][:D][:D]
Admittedly, I didn’t click on all the links, but am surprised there was no mention of Images Replicas:
http://www.imagesreplicas.com/hosubway.htm
Maybe, someone could encourage them to make some more runs of the cars that are sold out.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543
This link has some useful photos and infromation on els - including one of the only heavy rail elevated lines: www.oldnyc.com - Enjoy!
If your modelling the Subway, dont forget to add a couple storm sewers and a couple of alligators poking their snouts thru the grating[:P][;)]
Nice to see this old topic kicked back up front! [:)]
new ideas are always welcome [tup]
Nice work dinwitty! like the sound coming out of your website!