Have a 1964 or 65 Akane DM&IR M4 2-8-8-4 that i’d like to remotor with a NWSL can or flat can motor, Has anyone here done one ? If so which one in your opinion would be best.
Of course bigger is better and I was thinking along the lines of a 20 x 40 which should give plenty ot torque and also a realistic low top speed.
If your knowledgable…opinion’s please.
first tune up the drivetrain, making sure that the clearances and play are “just right”. Make sure that both engines roll freely on glass plate.
If the model does not have gearboxes, get some from NWSL. A can motor does not have the bearings to support the thrust load of a worm / worm gear.
If the alignment between the motor shaft and gearbox is near perfect, use R/C fuel line for couplling between the motor and the first gearbox, if it is not perfect, use NWSL drive shaft and u-joints.
Use NWSL u-joints and drive shaft between the front and rear gearboxes.
GE Silicone II chaulk is good for securing the motor to the frame, make sure you do not get any inside the motor.
Funny you should ask. I’ve got two of those wonderful Akane M-4’s (and looking for more), one that I re-powered with a can, the other that I’ve just let alone, since the open frame motor still works very well, even at slow speed. First thing is to replace all the rubber tubing with universals. Second thing, if you’re looking for an NWSL can, get a large one. The Akane is a very HEAVY loco, and though the flat can is a good fit, it really won’t do the job, especially if you’re planning on hauling as many cars as the original motor could handle. I’d go with the largest can that can fit in the firebox. You can either go with the open gearboxes on the Akane, or replace them with NWSL reduction gears (I’m still using the original gearboxes) but the universals will compensate for the lack of play in the can motor. One universal set between the motor and the shaft, another set between the articulated shafts. If you want to go with NWSL gearboxes, you’ll have to do a lot of cutting and filing on the frame–and somewhere in this series of posts there’s a good article about how one modeler up-graded an Akane SP Cab-forward with NWSL reduction gear boxes–both locos have essentially the same mechanism.
One very important thing, though–how is the wear on the driver treads on your Yellowstone? Do you still have nickel silver, or have the drivers worn down to the underneath brass plating? If they have, you’re going to have smooth-running problems, no matter WHAT kind of NWSL can you choose for the loco. Though this isn’t a ‘purist’ approach, I highly reccommend Tomar track-slider shoes for ANY older brass locomotives. I’ve installed them on all of my older brass, and they’re flawless for improving the running capabilities. One shoe is attached to the + side of the rear set of loco drivers, the other is attached to the + pickup side of the centipede tender (I suggest between the 2nd and 3rd set of wheels. The Tomar are easy to install by following the directions, you’ll need a #62 drill and a #90 tap for
Thanks for the great post guys, twhite,had given some real thought to the flat can motor…thanks for the heads up on that.
Had planned on sticking with the original gearbox’s using the NWSL universal’s.
This baby has minimal wheelwear and as you say will pull the paper right off the wall.
Ragnar–my main concern for the flat can motor has to do with a used Westside Rio Grande 4-6-6-4 that I picked up a couple of years ago. The owner had installed a flat can and the loco seemed to have a lot of trouble just hauling itself, let alone a string of cars (the Westside is about the same weight as the Akane). I remotored it with a larger NWSL can, and it works like a swiss watch, now. I have NWSL flat cans in some lighter, non-articulated locomotives, and they work very well, but I just don’t think they have the ‘oomph’ that a really heavy loco like the Yellowstone requires.
If, as you said, you’re going to stick with the original Akane gearboxes, then your conversion will be a pretty easy one. You’re right, those Akane’s will pull the paint right off the walls. I always joked to friends that I used mine to raise and lower the garage doors!
Tom [:p]
I thought all they did when they went to a “flat” can was to change the shape of the outer shroud by flattening it in the area where there was no magnet, to save space. Am I wrong or are you just saying that the NWSL flat can is smaller and less powerful than their full sized can offering? I am not sniping; I have no idea. I have changed a grand total of two “round” real motors in over 30 years. I do not count those “things” Bachmann once put in their locos. Oh, and I did have a Bowser style motor rewound at a slot car shop. Man, at first it would have outrun a Hiawatha - the REAL Hiawatha. I explained I didn’t want quite that much speed and the guy rewound it again (with many more turns) and it was great.
P.S. - Those Yellowstones look GOOD !! I just love a big steam engine.
A flat can has less magnet in it - thus it is less powerful than a full can of the same size. WIth the increased magnet, the full can should also have more iron in the rotor, and less copper.
Thanks Nigel. I’d never really measured anything, and now I learned something else without having to. Would have been nice to have forums back when I was learning turbomachinery or thermodynamics.
Virginian–I see Nigel answered both of our questions. I’ve remotored several ‘lighter’ brass locos with flat cans (2-8-2, 4-6-2 and 4-8-2) and they’re good runners and nice pullers, and the profile of the can certainly allows for detailing a backhead if I want. I just found the flat can in the Westside Challenger to be far less than the loco needed (I changed it out into a GN 2-8-2 and it works beautifully).
I’m probably still hanging on to the old open-frame concept (bigger, the better), but a larger round can in my brass articulateds seems to give me the comfort of smoother operation and more pulling power. And the firebox and extended cab in those Akane M-4’s allows you a good-sized motor and still plenty of room to do any backhead detailing you might want to do later on.
Thanks for the compliment on the locos, BTW. I really like them. Still looking for one or two others. Would like a whole fleet of the big critters.
Tom [:D]