Are the DC layouts slowly all disappearing?

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

Hello,

I am talking about the layouts that are constructed more recently be it a 4 by 8 layout or larger. Went to a LHS two weeks ago and admired some SD70ACE’s from Athearn and the proprietor of the store said that all he orders now for display are engines with sound on board. Special orders are the straight DC locomotives. Went to a train show today and again looked at some of the same locomotives and again the sales person said that at their store they only get the sound version, they are ordering less and less DC locomotives. At another table was a gentleman that builds layouts for people and he too tells his clients to go straight into DCC.

What is your experience, is this only a trend here in this area in southern Ontario? I for one do not mind my DC layout. I do not mind doing the extra wiring and throwing the extra switch, specially since I am a lone wolf modeller. Also being a electrician probably helps. If I wanted to go into DCC I am certain that the decoder installation would be pretty straight forward.

Do you see DC loco’s except for the cheapest most basic train sets disappearing from the shelves at the LHS?

Frank

2

My hobby shop still carries a lot of DC stuff. Individual locomotives with sound outnumber the DC ones, but the digital stuff isn’t taking over. What the hobby shops carry depends on the customers. You may have more digital railroaders in your area.

3

Is the DCC market slowly growing? Yes, I’d definitely say that it is. DC disappearing, however, is quite another question.

I would speculate that DC is still dominant in the hobby and will likely remain viable as an operating system for perhaps the next 15-20 years. It is simply a matter of too many older hobbyists having too many DC locomotives they are unwilling to convert for there to be any truly rapid and dramatic change in the situation. I, like quite a number of other long time hobbyists I know, will likely never bother to make the change-over, simply because what we currently have operating our layouts works just fine for us. DC sales still have many profitable years ahead of them.

CNJ831

4

Most stuff I see at the hobby shop is predominantly DC, especially the train sets. Even higher brand loco’s are mostly DC with a DCC plug.

I find it interesting that there are several DC power packs that cost as much or more than a DCC starter set.

5

I think DC will never die untill DCC becomes more affordable.

The Lone Geep

6

Where I shop/look its about equal at one shop and still more DC at the other. What I have noticed, though is that the plain DC locos are starting to cost the same or more than the DCC versions, and that DC power packs are getting up there in price as well.

I’m not sure DC will disappear just yet, but I think it is being forced out. Time comes with change.

If not, we’d all still be driving Model T’s with standard tranny and no a/c, and not travelling more than 30 MPH.

We, too, will all be assimilated, to quote the borg.

7

The BNSF layout at the Chicago Museum is a DC layout and is not changing. In general, you are probably correct about DCC being used now for many home and club layouts and DC is probably not so popular as it once was before DCC.

CZ

8

Frank,

I’m currently rebuilding my layout so that it will be transportable when we decide where we want to retire.

The current space is a 24’ x 40’ heated and cooled finished room aboave my detached garage.

The layout specs are roughly as follows: 8 scale mile double track mainline on two decks, staging for about 25 trains, design train length 20 actual feet, detection, signals and CTC dispatching, seperate industrial belt line, seperate single track WM interchange line, etc, etc.

It will be DC with Aristo Craft Train Engineer wireless radio thorttles, a walk around cab selection system, redundent tower controls, provisions for 8-10 operators at once, and alternate display mode allowing 5-6 display “loops” to just run.

Mainline turnout contols provide one touch routing through even complex interlockings and are duplicated at local tower panels and on the CTC panel.

Typical power per mainline train is two steam locos or 3-4 diesels. Do that math, 25 trains x 3 locos x extras for power changes = 130 + locos. Locos I already have and don’t want to add decoders to.

Cabs are assigned to throttles by redundent pushbuttons that allow full walk around operation and/or CTC panel operation. Many “track sections” (blocks) are automaticly connected based on turnout position (X sections) so the number of “track sections” (blocks) that must be “assigned” is greatly reduced - based on Ed Ravenscroft’s MZL control and the work of Paul Mallery.

It is all done with some inexpensive relays, pushbuttons, cat 5 cable, and the repetitve use of some simple circuits that have been used to control machines since the invention of the electric motor.

Important note - I have no interest in onboard sound.

I just installed a similar but simpler DC cab selection system on a friend’s layout about a year and a half ago. He too uses the Aristo Train Engineer thorttles.

Rumors about the death of DC are greatly exaggerated.

9

I think that DC will be around for a long while to come yet…this kind of thing has come up in some local clubs about changing over to DCC but most have turned it down because of the conversion costs…and at a time when some of these clubs are doing the hunker down thing…megh…conversion is going to be a cost factor for sure…

As for home layouts…megh… I see there to be a bit of an inroad being made by DCC but…not so much…just yet…

10

No. Apparently DC is still firmly in the drivers seat as witnessed by the various black boxes for DC sound control,duel mode decoders as well as the new MRC Tech 6…

Even Bachmann’s DCC on board locomotives can be operated on DC.

Let’s take a closer look at Bachmann’s DCC strategy…

Simply put they are marketing basic DCC equipped locomotives at a affordable price and at street price they are a bargain for many modelers that wants DCC but,has budget restraints…

I have no doubt the other manufacturers are scratching their heads and wondering how to counter this move.

11

I dont think that DC is going to disappear any time soon, but it does pose another interesting question especially to modeler that has a large layout in Dc that they’ve been working on for years. If you had to start over from scratch for whatever reason, would you stick with DC or make the move to go with DCC at that point?

12

Just the cost of the starter system alone is keeping my layout a DC block controlled one. Let alone the cost of installing decoders in all of my locomotives.

13

My current layout, which was started this fall, is DC. This is a small test layout, but its larger successor(s) will likely by DC as well.

I would expect that from a custom layout builder. His clients are willing to spend more $$ on their layouts than most of us. And unless he has an unusual contract provision to use customer’s pre-existing DC equipment, there would be little reason not to push his clients into DCC.

Yes, I do. In general, the RTR locomotive format has very little reason to remain DC. The installation of a DCC decoder adds perhaps $5 (for non-sound) and perhaps $40 for Tsunami to the manufacturer. The customer perceives the DCC-equipped model as adding extra value for the extra $100 retail for sound, or the customer perceives the DCC-equipped model as keeping up with the times and the competition. Either way, not having the decoder installed is seen as a detriment by most. Especially since present day DCC decoders run adequately on DC. Those DC customers who don’t want decoders interfering with the locomotive performance know exactly what they want, and are usually willing to order their choice, or remove the decoder on their own. After all, the manufacturer of RTR needs the initial out-of-the-box experience for the average Joe to be good to get repeat customers - and little else matters.

Personally, since I already own and understand DC equipment, and am on a limited hobby

14

To follow up on the comments of a few others, Bachmann has the perfect strategy, offer DCC with sound for that group, and offer DCC dual mode at a price so low DC modelers are not put off, AND, they include the parts and instructions to remove the decoder.

I sell my surplus Bachmann decoders on Ebay, I don’t ask much, but I don’t pay much. They sell like hot cakes.

It would be a wise move for all of these manufacturers to follow.

Sheldon

15

Several of us have already answered this question - I’m rebuilding and staying DC.

Sheldon

16

From what I’ve witnessed here in Florida, DCC is continuing to grow in popularity. I was pleasantly surprised when just a few years ago I joined the Suncoast Model Railroader’s Club. Strictly DC, many of the members (especially old timers) were not interested in DCC…at first. Within a 1 1/2 year’s time, the club transitioned totally DCC. The simplified operations potential, simplified wiring, total freedom for locomotives to travel on any track and anytime, and the flexibility to control lights and sound features offered too much potential to ignore. One of the members was 90 years old and enjoyed DCC.

Currently during operations sessions, except for one dispatcher, modelers run the trains instead of the layout! As strange as it sounds a prototypical aspect that operators have to watch for is collisions! Like prototype locomotive engineers, DCC modelers operating on cub layouts have to be alert.

I don’t think DC will disappear, but imho DCC will become much more popular as the technically sharp 20- something modelers mature into the 30-40 something generation. DCC and DCC-Sound will be the norm for many of them.

Personally, after having tried DCC and DCC-sound, there is no way I’d want a DC cab control layout.

17

Within the past two years, I’m pretty sure I’ve visitied just about every hobby shop in Indiana and many other shops in the surrounding states of MI, IL,and OH. A corporate owned hobby chain with a location in Indy has as inventory of about 75% DCC and Sound. The other roughly two dozen shops I’ve been in have about 75% DC.

I think LHS’ cater to their customers, so each experience may differ.

As a trend, yes, DC is disappearing, but slowly. For instance, as others have mentioned, there isn’t much need to convert an existing layout to DCC if the current DC layout works just fine now. OTOH, If newbies enter the hobby, they’ll probably go straight to DCC since, if you no nothing about DC or DCC, why not just learn the current technology and skip the old school.

However again, a newbie may also want to just get his feet wet and start off with a DC train set. Then, manage to get interested in other aspects of the hobby such as locomotive details, structure building, railroad history, etc, before operating systems become that interesting to him. So his pace of change may be slower, if he changes at all.

How to judge how quickly DC will eventually disappear from hobby shop shelves involves too many factors for my brain to compute. If the manufacturer’s fail to support DC, oh well, there are always plenty of people selling off their DC stuff. It will take even longer for the second-hand DC market to dissappear.

18

When you think about it DC will probably outlive DCC. DCC has pretty much maxed out on capability. I think what we’ll see is a next generation DCC that will be backwards compatible with current DCC, and the current technology will fade away. DC will more than likely survive past that point. It makes no sense for an industry to be based on technology designed when 8 bit processors ruled the day. Even standard sound decoders have substantially more computing power than both Digitrax and NCE’s best system. I had opened both up and they both run off of 8 bit processors with very little memory.

19

Although the percentages may shrink over time, I personally think DC will always be around for the modeler. In it’s most basic form, DC is very simple; in other ways it can be quite complicated. DCC is very much like that, too. Either way you can put as much or as little as you want into the hobby - albeit from a financial, time, educational, and/or social standpoint.

Tom

20

My thoughts exactly - well sort of. DCC has some advantages for some applications and the reasons for chosing or not have been widely discussed on here, it is a personal choice depending on your goals.

But I do suspect this technolgy has just gotten started. I joke about a lot of tech stuff that I have no use for by saying “I’ll just wait for the Star Trek version”. I don’t own an Ipod, my cell phone does not take pictures or get on the net, I’ve never sent a text measage and my house does not have a programable thermostat.

But I designed and installed some of the first industrial “program logic controllers” for industrial otor/process controls back in the 80’s. My house has home automation (for important stuff, not messing with the heat settings) and I have designed dozens of top quality hifi speaker systems and lots of industrial control systems, digital and analog.

IF I ever put little “decoder brains” in my locos, I want them to also be direct radio receivers, taking the control signal off the rails and reducing the under layout infrastructure now common on larger DCC layouts.

Until and unless such advancements come and make a suitable impression, I will stay with my radio DC throttles and MZL advanced cab control.