Hello all. I appreciate earlier feedback provided on this topic. My questions have morphed in some new directions and thought it best to start a new discussion thread.
I subscribe to the MR Video Plus Service and have access, also, to this site’s layout plans. I’ve enjoyed looking at the plans; but do have some general questions. When I pull up a given layout here on this site, I then see the option to open a PDF file on a given layout. I select that option and what pops up is just an enlarged picture of the layout. Yes, the grid is clearer…but it’s just a bigger pic of the layout. Is this the layout ‘plan’ in PDF format? Is there narrative intended to be included within this PDF that I’m not seeing?..(i.e. like a buy list of track that would be required to complete such a layout?). The layout plans always note where the layout was first published (like in the mag or one of the books). If I bought a back issue of MR where the layout first appeared, would I get a more detailed set of instructions? Maybe it’s just the picture and the scale grid…seems that there might be more for new modelers…Forgive me if this is but another naive beginner kind of question (likely it is). I’m kind of bewildered by the track plans here on this site. Some look so appealing…I would almost think there would be a break down of the track pieces needed…details about the turnouts…where there would be recommended a flex track run …
Related to the above, I’ve opened the Atlas website and found plans. The plans there would note where the plan first appeared in one of the Atlas track books. I bought one of the Atlas track books off Amazon (book #11 I think). The cover noted, ‘updated for 2013’. I thought this looked encouraging as there were a number of plans that seemed appealing. This ‘updated for 2013’ book gave considerable coverage of DC wiring; but no
May I first give some constructive advice… A long post like this one will hardly get read. Shorten your questions to the very basic level, and you can add detail as folks respond and question.
OK, a time proven method (I’ve used it for 50 plus years) is the scale drawing. Get a pad of quadrille paper and determine a scale that works best for you (i.e. 1 square equals 3 or 4 inches, or a foot, or ???). Then, do an outline of your available space, and then draw in your track plan. I would suggest you pick up a track plan template, for then you will get accurate turnout (track switch) dimensions.
The videos are all fine and good, but I would get a couple of the Kalmbach books, especially the HO (or N) Primer, and so on. If money is an issue, check out Ebay for they are always available there.
The best advice I can offer is to draw up an accurate scale plan - not only for the trackage, but for the benchwork and the layout structures, etc. Take your time and do it right. Rushing and “going on the cheap” will surely bite you in the end.
I think that what is missing is that most published plans are to present ideas rather than a piece by piece construction guide. Yes there is a scale grid but that is to give you an idea of space etc. What is left is for you to determine what you want from the plan and proceed as others have directed you to come up with your own version of the plan. Most published plans are not a construction recipe but a basis for your own creativity.
That is interesting. I have a much older Atlas track plan book that does include DCC wiring. Of course that mainly consists of adding an extra insulated rail joiner to create an isolated “programming” track. It could be because DCC is so easy to work with in this reguard. Almost any Altas track plan can be wired for DCC by hooking all the “Y” contacts to one wire and all the “X” contacts to the other. The only issue is with reversing loops. For those one would look for the Atlas Controller #220 and replace them with a DCC auto reversing unit.
correct.
yes many people use that technique.
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How do some of you proceed with building layouts from plans? It occurred to me that MR mag will take on a project layout and report incremental progress over several months. Maybe that’s the kind of approach I need…haven’t looked to closely at that option as I haven’t seen a project pla
I suggest you look at the project railroads that Model Railroader does each year. They are pretty detailed about what they are doing, usually over 4 or 5 issues. They usually start in January. If you have access to back issues, look them over and pick one you like.
Rice Harbor is the one for this year.
Look under “How To” on the menu bar above. In the right column is Project Railroads. Click on that to get some information on different project railroads.
What he said… check out the “Beer Line” or even the “Virginian” layouts from a few years back [tup]
Along those lines, there’s a thread on this forum called “The Virginian Build Thread” where a few guys are documenting their construction of the MRR Virginian project layout.
Unless it’s one of the project RRs that appear in MR, where you do sometimes get in-depth presentations on construction practices, methods and materials, the options to use in building it are generally left wide open for a reason. People tend to buidl with what they are familiar with. The same trackplan can almost always be built on anything from traditional framed bencwork to L-girder to door panels to styrofoam. There would obviously be very different material lists, skill sets, tools, etc for each of those options. I advise doing soem research on the various methods and don’t sweat the trackplans right no so much. Once you familiarize yourself with each, consider building a small module or started layout with whatever you feel is most comfortable. Gain some experience, then consider something bigger and more complex where you can size things up and have an idea of how you’d go about building it based on some hands on experience.
As for DC versus DCC wiring, there is actually relatively little in DC that doesn’t apply just as well in DCC. The main thing is you only need to wire ONE cab’s worth in DCC, if you look at DC as an example. For DC control, your have to control how the power gets to certain tracks from your controller/power pack and you must use multiple power packs for multiple cabs if you need to cpntrol more than one loco, along with the multiple wiring circuits to sopprt directing the power to the locos you want to move. In DCC, you control which loco’s get the power that is always present and the same all over. There is essentially one powerpack (although that’s a great oversimiplification, but bear with it for the example’s sake) to run mutiple locos.
There are some specilized things about DCC, like bus wiring, wiring boosters, setting up signal system,etc, but this can be addressed seperately in a DCC-only book or website.
I doubt you will find what you are looking for in anything above a 4x8 sheet pf plywood because very few of they have a “parts list” per se. You can pretty much use any brand switches of the same number and with flex track you have to layout and cut the track to fit. A room sized layout assumes that if someone is going to tackle something of that complexity, the builder has the capability of transferring a plan to a physical product without using sectional track. Most will denote the size of switches (#5, #6, etc) and the builder can just count up how many switches of what hand are on the plan and buy that many.
The track wiring for DCC is pretty much the same as for DC.
No less an expert than John Armstrong, when asked how he would frame a two-level layout, was reported to have said, “I design the track plan. I leave designing the benchwork to the builder.”
Then, too, no small-scale drawing track plan (for anything more complex than a train set loop) ever gets built without modification.
There is also a widespread fallacy that it is possible to get it RIGHT first start off the blocks.
Drafting pencils are made without erasers - because serious draftspeople need much bigger erasers than can be stuck on the end of a pencil. And then the machinist on the floor finds out that the part shown by that beautiful final drawing can’t be manufactured with real-world tools…
Don’t obsess about building the perfect layout. Have fun building, operate what you have built, change it if you think you have a better idea or need to adapt the track to some new piece of rolling stock.
Our prototypes do this all the time. Check out the satellite views of Wyoming and you’ll find lots of ‘ghost’ roadbeds left from Union Pacific line relocations. Ditto for Santa Fe (now BNSF) in Northern Arizona.
There is no such thing as a perfect railroad, model or full scale.
I would like to thank all of you who responded to my questions and concerns about layout plans. I really appreciate the time you spent in helping me to get a handle on this. My apologies for the delay in responding…have been slammed with ‘work things’…soon to get back to ‘train things’ that are surely more fun!
The John Armstrong book on operations has helped me more than any of the others. The late John Armstrong, in the midst of all his knowledge, took a wry and hip approach to track planning as some of you are aware. Interestingly, I immersed myself in woodworking for the last few years. I filled a garage with power tools and made some things for the family. I am about at the level of advanced beginner or perhaps an ‘intermediate’ relative to woodworking. The family thought I had abandoned my woodworking as I moved into train-study late last year. As it turns out, I am now poised to build some benchwork!!! I did build the 4x8 table my current layout resides on…pleased with that…even though it weighs as much as a Toyota (lol) !! Lighter lumber next time!!
I have current ‘space’ to do a layout across one wall of a multiuse room in the form of a sideways “E”. The long run could be out about 12 feet and against the wall. The E’s two end prongs could be @5-6 feet with width to allow for at least a 22" turnaround loop. The peninsula could be out @8 feet. I will soon be working up some templates of radii in 18, 22, and 24". I just can’t yet ‘see it’ in my mind’s eye. I have thirty pieces of 36" Atlas code 83 flex track. I plan to start ‘pondering/planning/playing’ as many of you suggested!! A Xuron rail cutter arrived from Amazon yesterday! I haven’t decided if I will keep the current/starter 4x8 layout in place. It
If you have that woodworking experience, then you’re good to go in that direction. Think of the underlying framwork as two inter-related, but somewhat separate structures. The framing, legs, L-girders, etc, hold the whole thing up and can be planned more or less. You need to leave some flexibility in being able to more around the crossbeams or joists, but you can generally plan that out and build it in whatever straightforward manner you prefer.
Assuming you’ll use plywood for the subroadbed, it’s then a matter of cutting it to support the planned track. This can be a little tricky and is certainly more free-form, but after a little practice, you’ll get good at where to place the seams and how big and complex pieces you’ll cut and install. I do the large areas first, then work toward the next location. Don’t make the subroadbeed too narrow, as it forms an edge to attach and transition to scenery that’s hard to put back on once it’s trimmed off.
For making grades, and general support, you’ll have simple risers and cleats to support the plywood above the framework most likely. Be sure and establish a level or “zero” mark, generally the lowest section of track, early on and work your grades out and uphill from that, being careful to avoid abrupt vertical curvature. I’ve found a good electronic level that reads out in grade% is a very valuable tool.
Depending on what switch machines you’ll use, if any, keep in mind they’ll often protrude below and you need to avoid conflicts with croosbeams, etc. If you do most of the attaching by usintg screws from below, you can often easily move a crossbeam if that becomes needed.
Those are some tips to start, not hard and fast rules. We’re here to help, so keep us informed of how things go.
It sounds like you’re heading in the right direction, and that’s a good thing. Model railroading is not an exact science, in that there are many waysmto accomplish the same thing. A layout can be made with plywood or extruded styrofoam; flextrack, sectional track, or handlaid. Do what works for you, and don’t be afraid to experiment. Above all, don’t fall into the trap of thinking everything has to be right the first time. As you’ve no doubt discovered in woodworking, your skills grow the more you work. Try something, and if it doesn’t work to your satisfaction, rip it out and try again. All of us have done that at one time or another. My advice on the 4x8 with the EZ Trak – let it go. Trying to incorporate it into a new layout will be frustrating and suboptimal.
Thanks again to all who have shared guidance. The forum has given me considerable confidence in launching forward. I think I bought at least 50% of the books in print from Kalmbach (sp.) publishing! I have read and re-read many! I have introduced myself to several hobby-cultures by self-study…I find the study/pondering/reflection to be about as much fun as the actual ‘doing’ !! The feedback from all of you here on the forum has given me more of a ‘live’ sense of community. I hope to be able to see some club layouts. I live in the Winston-Salem, NC area and have heard there is a well established club in nearby Greensboro, NC.
On the benchwork, I am leaning toward an attached to the walls L-girder approach…wish I had more space (seems that’s a common lament!). On my 4x8 layout, I used homasote atop the plywood. I don’t think I will use the homasote with the bigger layout. Thanks for the feedback about a recommended approach to the benchwork. I think I understand the cookie cutter technique…think the level with a grade readout would be a good purchase.
I appreciate, too, the advice about letting the EZ track go… If only I had known then…etc…lol. But, you know, I must take my hat off to Bachman and some others for prepping complete DCC starter sets. The DCC trainset and the expander pack put me in the DCC biz…it opended the door. I realized within a week or two, though, that expansion was not what I needed to consider.
Never hurts to have an oval of EZ Track or something similar around. It’s handy for display layouts, around the Xmas tree, etc. We’ve even got the stuff in HOn3 now, thanks to Blackstone,
Have a 12 and 9 year old grandsons. Believe I will relax my protection and supervision, after more training lol, and let the boys play with the EZ track layout.
Have hit a snag with the new layout! Plan is to use HO Atlas code 83. May have noted earlier that I have 30 pieces of Atlas code 83 super flex track now. Tonight, decided to compare internet prices on the Atlas code 83 Customline turnouts…#4 and #6…multiple left hands and right hands. UNAVAILABLE ususal places I look: Train Sets Only…Walthers…even the Atlas site store. What gives? Any ideas how I can find these next step pieces? Thought I was picking a nonexotic track that would be commonly available!! Thanks in advance for any help…realize this is a topic for another group; but just thought I’d interject this in our general discussion mix…
Atlas has ben struggling to get track production back up to speed for the last two years due to an unplanned switch in factories in China. Shipments are now arriving on a regular basis. Given the back orders and pent up demand, it’ll be awhile before they get this mess straightened out, but they are working on it.
If you do decide to keep the HO 4X8, I would suggest that you not make it part of your expanded layout’s main line. Otherwise, the equipment you can run on the entire layout will always be limited by the 18" radius curves and snap-type turnouts of the legacy HO 4X8.
Good Morning. Appreciate all the feedback. Hope I can offer help to newcomers to the hobby someday as all of you have offered help to me.
Update on unavailable Atlas code 83 track and what to do with my 4x8 EZ track layout: I don’t think I can be patient enough to wait on the Atlas track to be available! How surprising…maybe Atlas will get production rolling smoothly again soon. As for me and the next, more sophisticated, layout I plan to build…I have now gathered from several of you and my study that Peco track is most often available; albeit more expensive. Well…I ordered ALL Peco code 83 from Tony’s Train Exchange…new flex track…turnouts…miscellanea. I’m sending the Atlas flex track back for a refund; have had it less than 30 days and can. Tony’s was more expensive than some other online dealers I found; but gave them my order because of the prompt email response to some questions I have/had. Tony’s did have all in stock with the exception of one RH #8 insulfrog turnout that I ordered. I read that Atlas was compatible with Peco turnouts…maybe with some mods/shimming some said. Decided to go with Peco all the way since I don’t have to combine the two types (i.e. can send the Atlas back for a refund). My Peco order included one RH and one LH turnout (insulfrogs) in each of the sizes offered (5, 6, and 8…7 for the curved turnouts…). I have not decided on a plan yet for the new layout. Hope to make templated photocopies of the Peco turnouts so I can ‘see’ the possibilities as I ‘ponder’. Does that sound like a good idea? Believe I shared that I have space for a layout in the shape of a sideways “E” with the long side against the wall. The long side can be 11 feet. The center ‘prong’ of the E can be out @9-10 feet…unsure about the width. Unsure about width of this