Does anyone out there have a locomotive that wieghs more that 75 pounds? If your trains are like mine they are wieghed in ounces. If they wiegh ounces then why do we need to have 2x4 frame and 3/4 inch plywood to run them on? I use 1x3 furring strips and 1/4 inch luan. I am going on 10 years with this and no problems so far. Now I cant walk on it but then I don’t want to, if i did i would damage some scenery. So why all of the big deal over heavy duty and VERY EXPENSIVE construction. By the way my railroad is not climate controled it goes from 10 degrees in the winter to 100 in the summer.
Sure, my layout is 1x4 and 1x3 lumber, with 2x3 legs and a foam surface. I think this is becoming the “accepted” construction for many layouts.
Some modellers DO have to climb on their layouts, particularly those with 2-deck systems, or those with long reaches to the back walls. They need the strength, and if they’re anything like me, they’ll likely need even more strength as they become more “well rounded.”
Unless you put in a lot of structure under it, even 1/2-inch plywood will sag with time. That’s the reason for the 3/4-inch. And the 3/4 inch is heavy, so then you need the 2x4’s to hold it up.
So, it’s still a reasonable thing to do, if you can’t use foam or you must climb on top. For me, though, I’d rather spend less at Home Depot and more at my LHS. I’ve found the foam to be really easy to work with, too, so I have no regrets that I’ve gone down this path.
OK. I’ll bite,
"2x4’ 3/4’’ layout’s are ‘modules’ and rigid for moving and plugging together with another person’s rigid 2X4. Rigid modules maintain their shape better than unrigid - at least that’s the thought.
Many home layout’s today are using rigid frame’s and insulating foam. I wouldn’t want to walk on one either. Lastly, if one build’s anything larger than a 4X8, one deals with warpage. getting 2 layout pieces to join together is tough. Plywood bow’s, and lumber 1X4’s are crooked (1X3’s are worse).
I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with you. You get to choose what you buy for your layout, and Like marriage, you learn to live with it.
My heavens, I don’t know anyone who has that much frame under their layout. Even my old “sturdy” modular layout sections are only 1"x4" frames with 1/4" plywood, which was way overkill. My O-scale layout was 1"x3" frame with only 1/2" plywood cookie cutter ribbons. We don’t even use 2"x4" legs…
I think they are way overboard. Quality construction is much more important than weight of the materials. A good carpenter can build a solid table with 1 inch round legs. Someone like me could build a wobbly one with 4X4 legs. My corner section is built from 1X4 s with a homosote top but the hollow doors that make up my two other sections are much more rigid. And they are half the weight and 2 1/2 times the surface area.
As far as climbing on the layout. Well, that is really rough on the scenery. If you can’t reach something you shouldn’t have built it like that in the first place. There is no real need to use heavy lumber to support a few ounces of moving trains and a few pounds of scenery.
I have a 25’ x 50’ HO layout, and my benchwork is 1x4" L-girder with 1x3" joists spaced 16" apart with 1x3" risers holding up 1/2" plywood under 1/4" pine roadbed. And the whole thing sits on 2x3" legs (I had a lot of them laying around, otherwise I’d have used 2x2").
Is my layout overbuilt? For holding up HO locos and cars, yes. However, that’s not all that goes on a layout. There’s also a lot of weight in scenery materials unless you use pink foam (which I dislike). And then there’s the little problem of leaning on the layout itself. Since I’m not a small person, it has to be strong enough for me to do that.
I also desired a lot of under the layout storage, which means using the least amount of legs as possible spaced out to the max. By using 1x4" L-girders, my layout legs are 10’ apart, and my layout does not sag or tremble when I lean on it.
Just remember this, the normal safety factor in most design elements is 3, which means you take the max load you think an item will withstand, then multiply it by the safety factor. And that’s what you design for.
Are most layouts overbuilt? Possibly, but then my layout won’t crumble and fall to the ground when I run the vacuum cleaner into it, either. [:)]
Paul A. Cutler III
Weather Or No Go New Haven
Actually I have friends whose model engines weigh over 1000 lbs.
Live steam.
But they use welded steel to run their engines on, not 2x4’s if they want the engine up on a “bench”.
Dave H.
I haven’t built my new layout yet but plan to use very light weight material. No more than 1/4 plywood and some foam and all of the bridge work will be 1X4 at the most.
I have seen some layouts that are built with materials that could hold up 50 lb engines with 25 lb cars, so I think you brought up a valid point , maybe we could all look at our bridge work??? I know I am. Joey
My layout is a 1x3 frame with a 1/2" plywood top. All on either 1x3 legs or 1x4 brackets in the wall. It can easily hold me.
soumodeler
The Southern Serves the South!
www.cgmrc-macon.com
I used 1X3 for my L Girders and for my joists. The entire layout runs down 2 walls and is cantilevered off of the wall. The ‘lobes’ at the far end are 4’ and 6’6’ - everything is hung off of the walls. There are 6 of these cantilever supports, and I can climb on the layout with no problem(I weigh 173 lbs). I used 1/2" plywood in 1988 when I started construction; no sag problems with 45’ of railroad!
Jim Berneir
Mine is 18’ by 22ft. Lowest poit is 48" above floor, High point is 68" above floor.
Construction, “L” Girder 1x4 with 1x2 cap Air Nailed and glued. Joits are 1x4 on 16" centers, Subroadbed is 1/2" OSB, Cork Roadbed. The legs are 10’ apart and 2x2 with 1x2 “X” brace PLUS truss brace parrellel to the “L” Girder.
Now is this an over kill? Yes and No,
NO the material being used will not deflect at all with a 16PSF load.
The YES is a Club Layout that was built using 1x2 and 1X1 lumber with 2x2 legs. Plywood was 1/4", roadbed was homosote. It was a box frame of 1x2 with 1x2 joist. The designer was a structural eng who used the load of 30PSF. It was light, and cheap to build. total size was 12’ by 38’. His legs where 6ft on center with braces and gussets. EVERYBODY including me thought it was a joke. He built a TEST section 42" off the floor. We expected it to crumble. He CLIMBED on the layout all 200+lbs of him and walked across it. It did not shake or fall down. That was in 1976, it is STILL up and running on the same cheap wood.
We who are not engineers build to a higher saftey factor because a bump on our table can send a $1,500.00 Brass engine to its death on the floor. Then we would kill the person that knocked the table, wind up in jail and that would be that.[:D]
Depends on the configuration of your layout, and how you will access it, either during construction or afterwards. In my case, I conceived of, and built, a substantial table layout knowing that I had to think of access in the out of reach areas. Later I learned that I will not have a table for my next layout…at least, not three sheets of 5/8 ply side-by-side. HOwever, due to my choice, I had none when it came to building topography and laying track; I had to get up on it, and doing sawing motions atop a series of L-girders and 1X1’s was unthinkable…period. So, I used 2X4’s. With that thickness of ply and the two-by-fours, you can imagine that it is solid, and doesn’t budge at all when someone leans or falls against it.
The next one will be a combination, but mostly bench, and I will naturally resort to the thinnest lumber I can, or maybe even metal if the price is reasonable. Oh, and this time I’ll design it to be moved and to be reduced when space becomes problematic with later moves…you know…into the “home”.
I use 1x4’s and 1/2" plywood. The 1x3 knotty pine boards I see are precurved for boat building. I’m just not comfortable using 1/4" plywood - I worry about it warping or having a void in the middle layer.
Enjoy
Paul
I just had one here.
Box weighed 75 pounds even, before the 24V of NiMH, sound and radio gear.
Accu GS-4 in 1:32.
So, to answer your question, yes, and the “benchwork” for these is 2X6 with a 2X4 on edge in the center forming a “T”, on 4X4 posts, OR battens of 1X4 on stakes solidly supported with dirt and rock.
TOC
any time i’ve read about someone using 2x4s for an HO layout the owner has said that it was overkill and they’d probably use something lighter if they built another layout . 3/4" plywood is appropriate if you’re using 24" between joists , 1/2" is fine for 16" or less , and of course , foam is becoming more and more popular , so light weight layouts seem to be the way to go
My module is made of 1x4s with a cross brace in the middle and a 1/4 MDF top glued down. Styrofoam is used to bulid up areas such as mountains and canyons. No problems!
Problem! You mentioned that its not reacting to the weather. I had my layout at a rental house when I was first married and laid track in April in 50 degree weather. Summer came and my track expaneded with the weather. I have laid it in the summer and come cold I have gaps in my tracks. I have not ballasted the tracks in some areas and that was where the expansion happened but the cold hits anywhere
april
My layout is overbuilt for a couple of reasons. First, after the guy finished buiding me a basement in which to put my trains, my wife made the suggestion that I build a house on top of it. She said it would keep the snow off the layout but even before I had finished building it, I realized that she had tricked me. To get even, every time I needed more lumber (2" x4", 2" x 6", plywood, etc.) I would order a little extra. By the time I’d finished building the frivolity (house) for her, I’d accumulated enough material to fini***he train room and build all of the benchwork support. In retrospect, it’s probably just as well that most of it is 2" x 4" or heavier: there’s most likely a couple of tons of tools, toys, household goods and who-knows-what stored in this area under the layout (but off the floor, in case the basement ever floods). When it came time to build the benchwork, I opted for an open grid of 1" x 4" #1 pine, 16" o.c., with 3/4" plywood subroadbed. Urban areas were covered with whatever plywood I had on hand,
3/8", 1/2", or 3/4" and the rest was done with plaster on screen. The layout is baically around-the-walls with one peninsula. Some areas are over 4’ deep for scenic effect, but almost all track is reachable from the edge of the layout. I can stand on the plywood areas (like I did when running cable for an upstairs computer) or support myself by leaning on the plaster landforms to plant trees or install buildings. I am soon going to start construction on the second level and have decided to lighten up a bit. Most of this area will be about 30" front-to-back and will be 1" x 2" clear pine 16" o.c. and covered with 3/8" sheathing grade plywood. Track will be on cork roadbed or directly on the plywood. Any raised landforms will be extruded foam, but there will be no grades on this section. (The track on the aforementioned peninsula is an almost continuous 2.8% grade about 50’ long, comprised of two horseshoe curves connected by a long straight and topped by a wide radius “S” ben