Actually I “try” to replicate an actual prototype to the best that I can see in it’s original photo. The ultimate prototype is one that I’m able to see both sides, but unfortunately most of the time that isn’t possible. So I do both- 1 side “actual”, & 1 side “freehand”. & when I say “freehand”, in a sense-I usually find tags on other prototypes that I don’t plan on modeling, & replicate those, along with a few “freehand”-it varies.
Here’s the prototype ATW Ex SM car I modeled-it was part of a WLE train My fiance’ & I chased down about a year & a half ago outside Creston,Ohio:
You’re exactly right on the added “11.” ATW added onto the SM #. & Thanks for the added proto pics-I try to check out all possible for ideas for the “unseen” side which I’m currently working on, & those will help. Like Kluke said, experiment & practice. The finer brushes,the better. My choice are Princeton 20/0’s.
(Oh-I know you weren’t rekindling the debate-I just add that disclaimer in case someone thinks I’m advocating tagging. (I had someone do that to me on my RRpicture archives site) I don’t-I just try to model a car the way it appears-if it has tagging or no tagging.)
Another point to consider with graffiti is the type of car that you would be defacing.
Cars that are typically un/loaded in secure environments are much less likely to have graffiti, eg. chemical tankers and hoppers, where cars that left sitting in unsecured areas are more likely to tagged, eg boxcars at an inner-city recycling center. Another example is that unit coal cars – traveling from isolated mines to and from isolated power plants – rarely have any graffiti on them.
Too, the area(s) modeled can affect the type of graffiti seen. Rural areas tend to have more “John loves Jane” or “class of '99” type graffiti, while urban areas have more of the tagging type, a nick-name painted in highly stylized lettering.
Would any of you “true to prototype” I-model-graffiti-because-it-is-what-I-see types ever consider modeling a car that had been prominately tagged with a swastika or, perhaps, the letters KKK?
Of course not, you say, that would be racist.
Really?
What about the numbers 14, 18, and 14/88? If you saw them on a car, would you duplicate that graffitti?
It might interest you to know that the number 14 stands for the “14 words” of racist icon David Lane. 18 stands for the initials of Adolf Hitler. 88 stands for the 88 precepts of David Lane and or Heil Hitler. (“A” being the first letter of the alphabet and “H” being the eighth.)
But, what if the graffiti isn’t in English…
Do you know that many Mexican gang “tags” (like those of MS-13) are just as racist as anything the Neo-Nazis or KKK have come up with?
Do you know that nearly all taggers belong to criminal gangs?
I personally HATE graffiti in the real world, but on models, it’s different. Graffiti is a part of modern railroading, weather you like it or not. (Who does?)
I used sharpies for my first attempt on a “junkie” and it turned out OK.
Although we’re veering into the ‘graffiti debate’, which was not the intent of my post, I appreciate you raising a very important point. In response, I would say that I am motivated to consider modeling graffiti because I have always enjoyed ‘prototype modeling’, which is to say I like to try to duplicate particular pieces of rolling stock as closely as I can.
Of course, the problem for the modern era prototype modeler is that, no matter how much you deplore graffiti and condemn the vandals that are responsible for it, you really can’t do a realistic job of modeling contemporary rolling stock without taking it into account.
That does not mean, however, that it’s an all-or-nothing proposition. We are always selective about what we choose to model: we choose particular prototypes because they interest us or they fit into our operating concept and we bypass others. There is no rule that says we have to model a particular car that is tagged with offensive language or symbols. In fact, I don’t even photograph cars like that when I run across them.
Thanks for passing on the info about the meaning of various numbers. I don’t recall seeing those yet, but I’ll steer clear of them if I do.
Of course, many people find any tag, racist or not, to be so offensive they won’t consider reproducing any graffiti on their models. I suspect from the tone of your comments that you feel that way, George, and I entirely understand and respect that.
It’s a pity we live in a world where we have to make choices like this. Just like its a pity that I have to put up with BNSF personnel hassling me for taking pictures from a public sidewalk.
When I was a little boy, my Dad and I would walk down to a flag-stop passenger shelter on the Pennsy New York - Washington main line and watch the trains. In those days it wasn’t uncommon to see a car with a hot box (an overheated whee
You both make great points about paying heed to the proportions of heaviliy weathered vs. lightly weathered and graffiti-covered vs. ‘clean’ cars, and how these proportions vary across different car types. One class of ‘car’ that shows almost no graffiti is international shipping containers - and there are a lot of those on the rails here in the Seattle area.
That’s actually more urban legend than truth. While there are plenty of gang taggers, their graffiti is typically quite different than “artistic” graffiti tags. Most gang-related graffiti is territorial in nature, to denote a particular gang’s turf and are typically one color and very simplistic in nature. The colorful and stylistic tags we often see on frieght cars (like many modeled in this thread) are more the work of graffiti “artists” that are only criminals by way of their choice of expression, vandalism.
Wikipedia has an informative article on graffiti, available here.
Highly unlikely. The work is tagged “kuhr resa aware”. The “kuhr” tag is from a known graffiti guy, but the other two are unknown to me and might be something other than names.
To expand on what I posted above, this type of graffiti has little to due with criminal intent, beyond trespassing and vandalism. These guys like using freight cars as canvas, as their “art” will be seen all over the country, rather than just their neighborhood.
I’m surprised you’re having problems with BNSF. They have actually instituted, and are expanding, a citizens rail watch program. They see rail fans as an extra set of eyes looking after the railroad. You can join on their website and the provide an “ID” card with a number to call in case you see something wrong like vandalism, shifted loads etc. There is a mention of the program in the current issue of Trains magazine. Check it out.
That was my point, not all, and not nearly all, graffiti is gang related. Notice on this particular car that the ‘artist’ made sure to include the cars reporting marks and loading info as part of the painting.
P.S. - Preliminary photos of the project car should be ready in about 1 - 2 hours. Check back.
With out a complete understanding of the gang subculture, its signs, emblems and “art” you may (unwittingly) be promoting a gang associated racist message by duplicating it on a scale freight car.
That is enough of a reason for me not to want to bring that filth into my layout room. Sorry if it isn’t for you.
I think I provided a clear response to your question about modeling offensive or racist graffiti, and I tried to show respect for your position as I understand it. May I suggest that you show the same respect to people who differ with you on whether to model graffiti? Referring to people who choose to represent graffiti on their models as “pro-graffiti types” is uncalled for.
I haven’t heard anyone say they are in favor of graffiti in the real world. On the contrary, most have gone out of their way to condemn it.
