Steam or Diesel - Do these only exist in James Bond movies? Were there any built for the U.S.? I recall a basing option for the MX missle system where missles would be moved between sites by rail in a giant shell game. Was an armored SD45 part of the plan?
An interesting question. [^]
Perhaps during the second world war Germany might have had some but I have never seen anything about one if that is so. I know they did have some armored cars for protecting the trains against air attack. These armored cars would carry gun crews and the armor was more for protecting the gun crews than anything.
I have seen some western movies where the “bad” guys would shoot at the steam engine boiler to make holes in it. I am not sure if a bullet from that time would penetrate the boiler jacket or not. We all know how Hollywood is so I am not sure if that is an accurate account or not.
My father was one of the guys who was in a tank destroyer in WW2 so I have an interest in them. The Russians were a big user in WW2.
http://www.tankmuseum.ru/train.html
You know I did wonder about the Russians while posting about the Germans. I thought the Germany would have been more apt to have an armored engine though since they had several very large caliber rail guns.
The engines pictured do not appear to have extra armor, however it is clear that some of the railcars do.
During both World Wars a number of armoured locos were used by both sides. As far as I know, the only survivors to-day, in Britain at any rate, are some armoured gasoline powered 2’ gauge locos dating from WW1.
Armored Locomotives. GE built an early Diesel for use in Europe. Also one of the Canadian National early diesels was armor plated for use on the pacific coast(worries about Japanese naval attacks).
There is a picture of the GE in Jerry Pinkerpanks Diesel Spotters Guide. The CN armor plated diesel was featured in an article last year in Classic Trains, Diesel Victory.
I remember having seen some pictures of German steam with armor plating added to them for use on the eastern front. I think the Soviets had some armor plated trains as well. I vaguely remember having read about this happening during WWII & also during the Russian revolution.
Also the MX missile was not armor plated(and locomotives). The idea was to move the missile around the US rail network in a group of disguised trains. The Air Force was trying to figure out how to hide the trains from Soviet satellite surveillance. The problems were many. One the missile was 80 ft long with launcher this made it close to 95 ft long. Two the Air Force was concerned about camouflaging them from casual photographers(read railfans) as heavy as they were at the time the launchers would have needed 3 axle trucks underneath.
The other problem was the railroads themselves. What railroader would have wanted the trains. At least 1-2 missile drills a day, etc, etc.
In the end the Reagan administration decided to put the MX missile(now Peacekeepers) in conventional missile silos.
I remember the debate about the MX on trains with fond memories now. Some of the debate on how to hide the missiles was pretty funny at the time
Rgds IGN
A 50 caliber round would go right thru the boiler of about any steam engine made. There are multiplie films showing a fighter turning a steam engine into swiss cheese.
Heres a link to a photo of an armoured train in UK
http://www.rhdr.org.uk/rhdr/history.html
Everythings smaller in Kent
There were other armoured trains moving about on standard guage too in Kent and Sussex during the war as I recall.
There are loads of links for armoured trains but these two cover two wars and after.
Canadian National converted one of the two units of its first road diesel #9000(1st). It was altered to look like a boxcar from above, and had been set up to work in the Vancouver,BC area when it looked like the Japanese were going to attack the Canadian west coast. Their defeat at Midway ended the most serious threats, but 9000 (1st) was reasonably successful in its role as a decoy, in that RCAF pilots told their superiors that they were fooled. More likely they wanted to please their superiors! I’m sure those of you who are vets will understand how that would have happened!
Books available at Great Models www.greatmodels.com
Schiffer Publishing SH0198 German Armored Trains in WW II Vol.1 $8.95
Schiffer Publishing SH0288 German Armored Trains in WW II Vol.2 $8.95
Schiffer Publishing SH0917 Armored Trains of the Soviet Union 1917-45 $8.95
Schiffer Publishing SH17830 German Armored Trains on the Russian Front 1941-1944 $9.85
Schiffer Publishing SH9172 Armored Trains of the Soviet Union 1917-1945 $8.95
From Service Pubications: http://www.servicepub.com/
WOW008 The Armoured Train in Canadian Service $9.95 Canidian $
According to my grandfather’s friends who used to work at ALCo in NY, the New York Central, Jersey Central and Pennsy all considdered building armored switchers to work the docks as a precaution against U-Boat attacks but I don’t believe any were ever made.
I do know the DL 109s built during the war were build with stronger bodies but this could also be because the New Haven locomotives were dual useage and could have been strengthened for freight hauling.
The closest I’ve heard of to Armor plating in the United States is the design of the P5A and GG1 for Pennsy. The nose of these units was built like a battering ram not for war purposes but to survive grade crossing accidents at high speed without being destroyed. Granted the automobiles and trucks they hit were nowhere near as lucky.
Cheers!
~METRO
The US Dept of Energy had a shielded (not armored) locomotive constructed for use at the Idaho National Engineering Labs in the 1950’s. It was featured in a Life magazine article at the time, promoting peaceful uses of nuclear energy. The locomotive itself was conventional diesel/electric – although some called it the atomic engine. IIRC it was most likely a 44 tonner – although it weighed a lot more with the lead shielding. It shunted double-wide flat cars with experimental reactors mounted on them, between assembly facilities, test facilities, and analysis facilities. The double-wide flat cars run on a 4 rail track with the spacing between rails at the standard gauge of 4’ 81/2". I think the engine ran on the center pair. I have seen the track and the flats, but I never saw the engine - only the magazine photos. Naturally, I was not permitted to take photos.
dd
There’s a coal hauling RR in Columbia that has purchased a number of rebuilt GE Dash 7’s with armored cabs to protect crews from sniper fire. They lack the dramatic tanklike look of the WWII era armored locos. I believe that the Soviets may have built some armored diesels in the cold war era.
The basis for the pre WWI Marklin armored toy trains in O and 1 gauge were the British armored trains used during the Boer War. The toy versions came complete with cap guns which could be fired using a track trip.
They have them in Columbia (the country) with bulletproof glass.
Thanks DS for the book titles. [:)]
I always used to wonder about that when looking at these in the old Lionel catalogs
Not at more than about 500 meters, and not through the far wall of the boiler. A 50 Cal can penetrate 1/2" of homogeneous steel at about 500m, or less. If of the armour piercing type, up to 3/4" @600m. No aircraft would be straffing from that distance unless he had a near-treeless landscape, no wires on poles, fencing, etc., and was rasing a fair bit of prop dust inbound.
More than likely those scenes involve 20-30mm cannons, which some fighters and dive bombers carried.