IIRC The FP7A was 3(?) feet longer then the freight F7A. The extra three feet was for the boiler.
Globe’s FP7 is 3 feet to short…
Athearn never corrected this mistake after buying Globe Models.
Larry,
Sorry, but that is not correct.
Yes, there was an FP7 made by EMD that was longer, 4 feet longer. It was not longer to fit in the boiler, it was longer to allow more water storage for the boiler.
AND, most importantly, a fair number of regular length F3’s, F7’s, and a few F9’s were equiped with boilers.
The Globe/Athearn model is a correct representation of a boiler equiped F7, which did exist, even if only owned by a few railroads.
The Northern Pacific was I think the only road to buy boiler equiped F9’s.
And, IIRC, by actual count, considerably more F3’s where boiler equiped than F7’s.
This whole thread has talked about the the variations in boiler equipment on EMD F units.
There were without any question, regular length F units with boilers.
Only the orginal FT was never built with boilers in the A unit. But the FT was orignally designed as a drawbar connected A-B set, with the boiler in the B unit for passenger locos.
Sheldon
While not an F7 like the Athearn model, here is a picture of a B&O F3 AB set, pulling a passenger train, with the boiler vent clearly visable on the rear of the A unit roof.
Sheldon
New York Central had two A-B-A pairs of F3s steam generator equipped. The thinking at the time was that the extra tractive effort would be needed on the Boston & Albany’s steeper grades. Seems like E-7 and 8s handled it just fine.
NYC_DCA-1a-3502 by Edmund, on Flickr
The steam generators were removed in 1959 and they were regeared for freight.
IMG_9002_fix by Edmund, on Flickr
Regards, Ed
Well,so much for the “expert” diesel gurus and their bashing of the Globe/Athearn FP7 as they called it as being all wrong.
Thanks for the correct information.
No worries, happy to be of service.
And, actually, the original GLOBE MODELS did not develope the plastic F7.
Globe made wood and metal kits similar to Athearn. Athearn bought GLOBE, continued making their products, then used the GLOBE name to test market the plastic F7 and the plastic passenger car kits.
Plastic trains were getting bad reviews and Athearn did not want to risk their reputation until people got a chance to see the detail level.
The response was so positive that the GLOBE name was quickly phased out and the Athearn name replaced it, giving the “impression” that Athearn had purchased the line later rather than earlier.
I still have original GLOBE plastic passenger car kits with instructions that say Athearn:
Clearly they ran out of “GLOBE” instructions before they ran out of “GLOBE” boxes.
These passenger cars are exactly like the ones Athearn still sells, but before the more familar one piece body that slides on the floor, they were like this, all seperate pieces for floor, sides, roof and ends.
And notice how the red box artwork is similar to the later yellow and then blue box artwork.
Here is an actual made in Chicago GLOBE kit:
Sheldon,That Globe reefer kit brings back memories of watching my Dad build those and wondering as a 6 year old if I will ever gain the skills needed for building those kits.
Dad’s work bench (a card table) was located in a pantry room off the kitchen. I learned in later years that he was among the first in the Columbus HO club to accept Athearn plastic car kits as the new “standard” in the hobby.
Even though I have several P2K,Atlas Geeps,a IM GP10 and a Kat/Gen GP9 I still breakout one of my BB GP7s or SD9 to switch cars from time to time…
It seems the controversy of F units has been going on a long time.
What I don’t get, is where do/did the “experts” get their version of the “proper” shape of the F diesel?
Did they take percise measurements and profiles of the 1:1 locomotive? or are they going by “what looks right” to them?
And if they did take those precise measurements, why hasn’t that information been passed along? instead of “bashing/trashing” an F unit someone has modeled with great care.
Who are those experts?
I could never figure that out.
Mike.
Well Mike, first thing is some models have been tooled right from EMD drawings - BUT, the F unit nose was fabricated to a set of gigs/templates, so no two are really exactly the same, just close.
Think about it this way, if you model the B&O, your likely to use a picture of a B&O loco as your guide, etc.
Some have been measured, but some people reject the idea of using one or two measured locos as the “standard” because of the variations in the construction process.
In its day, the original Athearn model was considered one of the best. It’s major flaws are in the windshield and roof contour, not in the nose. And up to that time it captured a lot of other details without exaggerating them as much as others had.
The Stewart shell and the Intermountain shell are tied for second best in my view, with the prize for detail an accuracy being the Athearn Genesis/Highliner shell.
While still more than close enough, the Walthers/Proto F unit somehow looks a little off if you really study it.
But even with all that fact and opinion I just shared, I run them all, they all look close enough to me.
Sheldon
I seem to recall reading that the original F-units’ noses were more-or-less cobbled together with various welded panels, then plastered-over with a heavy application of Bondo or similar body-filler material.
While I don’t mind the noses on EMD cab units, I much prefer those on the various versions of ALCo’s FAs, although not so much those on the PAs.
Wayne
Thanks, Doctor Wayne, you’ve validated a critical point in my upbringing. My mom was right all along, rest her soul. I can hear her words echoing down the halls of time: “Young man, there are many kinds of noses and as with all fine art, everyone has their tastes. As long as yours has two holes you should be all right.”
Nothing like parental wisdom - once you’re a parent.
BTW, I also recall her mentioning people getting “nose jobs”. I had no idea Bondo was part of the reconstrution process. Thanks for expanding my knowledge.
John
I am modeling a DRGW F9B and want to add those steam generator vents. I added some of these vents years ago but don’t remember where I got these detail parts.
Does anyone know where to get these parts?
Details West. Joe
From Walthers catalog:https://www.walthers.com/diesel-parts-steam-generator-3-piece-set
BTW, remember the Athearn F-units were designed back when the hobby was much more ‘roll your own’. Many modellers would have bought undecorated engines and added details and then decorated them for a real or freelance railroad themselves. I suspect Athearn’s thought was that it would be easier for someone wanting a freight F-unit to just remove the protruding bits and sand the hatch area smooth before painting, than it would be for someone wanting a passenger F to try to add the needed parts to a freight engine’s roof.
I certainly understand your desire for developing DIY skills of all sorts. I have done and am doing the same in the house realm past couple years. For example, I finished a 700 sq ft basement DIY (drywall, taped, mudded, suspended ceiling and vinyl plank floor) and this spring dismantled an 18x19’ deck and have rebuilt it with mostly new wood from the frame up.
That said, my fine motor abilities are not as good as full-size things which I know from experience. I did try my hand at DIY on my Athearn BB F units and I wasn’t satisfied with the results. They were good for their time, but in comparison to models produced in the 1980’s and later, for me they don’t hold up visually. But each has their own standard of satisfaction.
I get personal satisfaction from rehabbing the house, in addition to the added sweat equity, but my modeling skills are just not good enough for a pleaseing end result for me. I am not a “lazy” modeler that just
I can’t believe I did not respond to this thread when it was new.
I drill the details off, glue in a piece of 3/16" styrene rod, then sand it smooth with NWSL detail sanders.
Eazy-Peazy.
The hardest part is waiting 2 days for the styrene cement to fully cure.
-Kevin
“As older boiler equiped F units were transfered freight service, boilers were often removed. Because Federal rules said if the equipment was in place, it had to be in working order…”
IRC it was possible to declare a steam generator “retired in place”, tag it and leave it where it was (maybe you had to disconnect the controls.) I seem to remember at least one road filled the boilers with concrete for ballast.
Did some digging…
“I remember poking around some of the New York Central’s Geeps that were formerly passenger equipped and the steam generator was replaced with a huge concrete cylinder about five feet in diameter and maybe five or six feet tall. A Vapor-Clarkson OK-4625 steam generator dry weight is 4,000 lbs.”
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/13/p/270768/3075368.aspx
Notes on UP’s PA’s and PB’s
“
b. |
Equipped with steam generators for passenger service; retired in place on locomotive upon reassignment to freight service in 1958. |
|---|
“
https://utahrails.net/up-diesel-roster/up-diesel-roster-08.php