NP: I am originally from the Twin Cities. If I was living up on the Range, i could drive to Carr’s in Duluth, or if up on the prairie in “nortwest” MN, I would check out the Fargo Moorhead area for club flea markets. As Winnipeg is only 86 miles from the border (remember your passport these days), there has to be a few railroaders up there or a few occasional flea markets. I have access to only one quarterly flea market 25 miles from where I live in Tampa, but I always go because you just never know what one of the regular vendors picked up from an estate sale during the interim. Be on the lookout and be proactive! Cedarwoodron
Cederwoodron, Carr’s was the closest good hobby shop I alluded to earlier. I am actually closer to Fargo/Moorhead than Duluth and do get over there irregularly. I’ve never seen any advertizements for train shows over there in either Model Railroader; or, the NMRA magazine. Don’t mean they don’t have them, just means I haven’t seen them. Winnipeg is around 275 miles from where I live, maybe more. Since train shows aren’t that big on my list, I guess I’ll attend the one in St. Cloud when I want to and not worry about it. Also, like I said, Athearn isn’t really what I what anymore, anyway, as far as kits are concerned as I’m really happy with Accurail and the others that still produce kits!
There has to be some logic in this discussion! The reality is that Athearn hasn’t produced kits in a long time! It only stands to reason that the Blue Box Kits are going to become less and less available. My point was that I think this reality is showing up in what is being offered on Ebay! It should also be showing up in train shows, too. If it isn’t now, it eventually will be showing.
I guess if they don’t make more, the unbuilt kits will generally disappear.
At train shows, I typically see built BB and MDC kits being sold more than unbuilt ones. I don’t look on ebay for BB or MDC kits, but like other items, their availability will probably ebb and flow.
I think that the Athearn RTR rolling stock offers a reasonable trade off between upgrade and price. With better paint, wire details, wheels and couplers, and some new tooling, I think the upgrades are worth the increase in price over the kits.
I guess I’ve succumbed to the lure of the dark side. I used to buy BB and MDC kits and shunned the RTR’s because of price. However, at a recent train show, somebody was selling well assembled kits, many with KD’s, for $5. I passed. Typically, I would’ve bought 3 or 4, but lately I would prefer to use the money to buy one RTR.
I still like Accurail kits, but like others have mentioned, their modern offerings are limited, and I have enough 47’ grain hoppers and 50’ boxcars. If they would offer a 60 ft boxcar, I would buy some.
BTW, the BB kit offerings of modern rolling stock wasn’t all that plentiful anyway.
Thats fine of course but for those who are trying to copy say, a certain RR during a certain time period, I dont’ exclude any maker if they offer freight cars which match appropriate specific cars. For example, if I’m modeling the west in the 1970’s, the Evergreen PC&F box cars were present in freight trains, but wait, I’d have to exclude them if I had a religion that excluded buying RTR rolling stock. BTW, I know the RTR stuff costs a lot more and I too am not made of money - what that means is I don’t buy very many of a lot of the latest stuff. So far, I only have one of each of each major type of Athearn Genesis Evergreen PC&F box car - a total of 2, but I am hoping to pick up one or two more before they are rare as hens teeth.
At any rate, for the most part I buy from most of the manufacturers where they make what I need, and that includes kits and RTR - it’s just that most of what has been offered in the past 10 years new has generally been RTR, so I don’t exclude them from my purchases. I buy Accurail in some cases because what they make fits my modeling needs too.
I generally don’t go hunting for Athearn bb kits on Ebay, but I do see loads of them at the train shows I’ve attended in New York and Virginia in the past 5 years. Another reality is they will probably linger for a while longer but if f
There are certain LHS’s that buy and sell used and collections. Many of them have BB kits. Many of these are sometimes in the back of the MRM. One around here is Rail and Spike.
Also, many of the vendors at the large trade shows here in the Southeast and East go to many different shows and so calling them can be helpful–that’s what I have done in the past sometimes.
Your frustration is justified.
Richard
Kind of an interesting division of perceptions:
From my point of view, using the Walthers Catalog as a basis for what is available today, there is more from the modern era of freight cars, than the steam; or, steam/diesel transition; or, even early diesel eras.
As spoken by a respondent here, from a modern modelers perceptions, there is a distinct lack of kits for modern era freight cars!
I agree with both these perceptions!
It also points out that manufacturers probably feel more successful producing RTR equipment for modern era modelers and kits for steam/transition/early diesel modelers!
Like many of you like to point out: the market is determined by supply and demand! Glad I rairly have to join waiting lists to buy the things I want!
That last sentence above is a statement that makes me wonder about how the public is marketed to today?!?
Keep this in mind, In 1970 or 1998, the Walthers catalog was likely a good comprehensive “guide” to what was available in the market.
But after their parting of ways with Athearn and MDC, and the growth of direct marketing by other companies, the Walthers catalog has lost its status as the comprehensive list of what is or will be made.
Even companies like Bowser, who filled some of the void left by the Athearn departure, are not fully or well represented by the Walthers catalog.
Walthers is slowly and quietly pulling back from being a “distributor” and as retail shops need distributors less and less because other manufacturers go to self distribution like Athearn, Walthers is likely to only carry outside lines it finds profitable in its direct sales to consumers and more and more of their product is likely to be “Walthers” branded.
They are comming around full circle - Bruce started “making” his own products, then in the peak of the local hobby shop era, they became on
[quote user=“ATLANTIC CENTRAL”]
Keep this in mind, In 1970 or 1998, the Walthers catalog was likely a good comprehensive “guide” to what was available in the market.
But after their parting of ways with Athearn and MDC, and the growth of direct marketing by other companies, the Walthers catalog has lost its status as the comprehensive list of what is or will be made.
Even companies like Bowser, who filled some of the void left by the Athearn departure, are not fully or well represented by the Walthers catalog.
Walthers is slowly and quietly pulling back from being a “distributor” and as retail shops need distributors less and less because other manufacturers go to self distribution like Athearn, Walthers is likely to only carry outside lines it finds profitable in its direct sales to consumers and more and more of their product is likely to be “Walthers” branded.
They are comming around full circle - Bruce started “making” his own products, then in the peak of the local hobby shop era, they became one of the biggest distributors, then they began buying up other manufacturers, now they are moving back to controlling the production of all or most of what they sell.
Boswer sells direct to any hobby shop - why would a shop buy bowser from Walthers? Heck, Bowser sells direct to customers - just pick up the phone and order what you want - that’s what I do for their product lines. Some hobby shops discount Bowser products a little, but Walthers surely does not - wholesale or retail.
Anyway, my point is, even with the problems of overseas production, preorders, etc, the selection of product on the market today is WAY bigger than the Walthers catalog. And the Walthers catalog will continue to shrink in importance as the market reshapes itself.
One this topic of modeling eras and available product of each era - This is a problem for the manufacturers - as each new decade
Sheldon: But after their parting of ways with Athearn and MDC, and the growth of direct marketing by other companies, the Walthers catalog has lost its status as the comprehensive list of what is or will be made.
Sheldon,You may want to add the coming of the computer since Walthers catalog is on line and in a instant you can tell if the needed model is in stock…We have never had such readily available information before.
We have never had it so good as we have for the last 10-15 years - the only question is were in the model train industry going from here?
Excellent question! I hope I live long enough to see the next change.
Actually, I don;t doubt my LHS buys their Bowser through Walters. The owner is cheap, but also lazy. The train department guys want to be a Digitrax dealer, but he won;t fill out the paperwork, so they buy Digitrax from Walthers and have to sell it for far more than the shops that buy direct. They’ve even told me - don;t bother, it’s too expensive here. How this guy has remained in business for so long, and still does, is beyond me - although the train department is shrinking, they do a large volume of RC cars and planes.
Something about Accurail - their kits are made int he USA. So if you want to support a US operation instead of some mass production factory in China - Accurail is your brand. They happen to make plenty of kits that suit my era and needs, so I have - a lot of them. Some of their newer kits, while still retaining molded-on grabs, ave added other details, like slope sheet braces in the open hoppers, no other inexpensive plastic kit has those. The molded on details don;t bother me - I follow the 3-foot rule. CLose up, no denying the Kadee cars look much nicer - but I cn get 4 Accurail kits for the price of 1 Kadee RTR car, and from normal viewing distance there isn’t a lot of difference.
Dunno about the BB kits on eBay - there seem to be plenty when I search for just one road name, mostly unbuilt. I am of course counting in the Bev-Bel variants.
–Randy
Other than Sheldon, no one has really mentioned Bowser yet.
They still sell kits.
The kits are still made in the USA.
The kits are mostly under $15 ea.
Sure, they are PRR-heavy, but they have other things, too.
http://www.bowser-trains.com/In%20Stock%20Pages/In%20Stock%20hocars%20Index.htm
Paul A. Cutler III
Yep yep, agree.
True, there are more and more things to model as the time of trains moves on, more years go cover, but the manufacturers seem to do well enough. I suppose that all comes down to understanding the demand like anything else if a manufacturer has to chose. Thats their job, why the get paid the big bucks or whatever.
It seems irrelevant what any individual thinks, what matters more is what the true definition is of “modern”. Common sense tells me that “modern” does not include 1960 anymore, even if it is too new for you,1960’s was more than 50 years ago for Pete’s sake. You can call a white horse purple if you want, but if everyone else sees a white horse, then your not going to be taken seriously.
More logically, modern probably includes something like the last 20 years, but if someone wants to post an authoritative definition, I’ll happily go along with it.
As modelers do. It’s all about what folks enjoy
And everyone’s idea of “modern” or “old” is different - I model 1954, everything after that is “modern” to me.
I realize few if anyone today would consider the 60’s, or even the 70’s “modern”, but my point is that one modeler may casually say he is looking for “modern” rolling stock and mean stuff from the 90’s, while those reading his post may think 2005, or the latest thing to hit the rails - even your “last 20 years” is a wide ranger range than I would consider modern when talking to others.
I know several of that type of modeler who are constantly updating their layout (especially their locos and rolling stock) to present day - maybe only they should be allowed to use the term “modern”.
Personally, the early 70’s was the last time I paid close attention to the prototype - I don’t know one present day diesel from the next - I have spent the last 40 years learning about railroading before I was born.
My comments about detail are not to detract from the idea of wanting or building correct and well detailed models. As you pointed out, they are all compromises to one degree or another. My comment is just to point out that the level “correctness” that some seem to “require” these days becomes their own limiting factor in finding a reasonable selection of REASONABLY representive rolling stock for their era.
Maybe not a big deal if you are just collecting stuff, but building a layout with a specific era and theme requires all manner of cars and locos that theme may require - are you going to do without a common and necessary item because some small detail that few know about and few can even see is not correct?
Of course there is plenty of kits on eBay - at the time NP was complaining that there hardly was any to be found, I did a search and found 770 items under Model Trains, H0 scale, condition new, matching the words Athearn kit. Of those 770, 220 were listed for less than $10, 92 for less than $7.50 and 47 for less than $5.
So it is not so much that kits are not available. I think it is more that the OP wants kits to both be available and still be listed at prices he considers reasonable - i.e. low prices by current standards.
Smile,
Stein
E-bay is always hit or miss. When I needed a certain brand and code of track, I would look one day and three would be listed, the next 25, two weeks later 25 or so as a lot and a few more listings.
The Walthers Catalog was used as an example of what is available simply because there is no other catalog like it, that I know of! I love Bowser kits also and know that Accurail and Bowser are US manufacturers and I believe whole heartedly in supporting and do support them.
As I’ve stated many times before and will again, my interest is in kits. Others can be in love with RTR and I’m fine with that; however, I’m not O.K. with the fact that RTR has supplanted kits to the detriment of kit availability!
Certainly someone will now chime in that Kits are doing fine and I will only say that we will simply have to agree to disagree.
So, your findings simply negate these facts: Blue Box Kits are no longer being made and once something is no longer made the supply of those things will dwindle?
Smile;.)
Mark
Does your trivial observation that stuff that no longer is being made will some day become extremely scarce (since relatively few things last forever and car kits, once built, cannot easily be un-built) negate the fact that Blue Box kits are still relatively easily available now, or that companies like Accurail currently are producing kits - also easily available ?
Your original complaint was that it was hard to find available kits now. Not that there will be few Blue Box kits for sale in 20 years or 50 years.
By all means - in 50 years there likely will be few Blue Box kits on eBay.
Grin,
Stein
As I pointed out in the VERY beginning of this thread, and as others have commented as well, Ebay is very hit and miss. I will repeate, to both of you, one week Ebay may be loaded with what you may be looking for, the next week pickings may be very slim. Dispite the number of “full time” sellers, it remains largely a nationwide yard sale.
I looked up “B&O Athearn” last night, I got 207 items - mostly unbuilt blue box kits - it all depends on what you are looking for and when you look.
Kits, be they easy to buld or craftsman type, have become more of a niche than mainstream like they once were - no question.
But Atlas seems to be willing to carry on with the Branchline kits so far, and Accurail and Bowser seem to have filled in moderately well
One more thought:
NP2626,
Repectfully, if you interest in kits is primarily about cost - I suggest you simply get over it.
That horse has left the barn - the low energy prices of the ninties that fueled the flow of cheap overseas production fueled a strong economy here are gone for good. Adjusted for inflation, gasoline and other energy costs are now about the same as they were in the 60’s and the price of lots of thngs that were held arificially low are now adjusting to their REAL inflation adjusted value.
IF an Athearn Blue Box kit was worth $2 when gasoline was 30 cents, than that same Blue Box kit (or its RTR equal) is worth $20 now that gasoline is $3.
That simple fact makes many of todays kits (Bowser, Accurail) quite a bargin.
I always seem to end up with at least $25 to $35 dollars invested in nearly every piece of rolling stock I put on the layout - better trucks/wheelsets, kadee couplers, a few detail parts, etc.
There are a number of things in this life where you do get exactly what you pay for.
Sheldon