I’m not sure if this has been covered before, but if it has, it may bear repeating. Just spent a little time doing yard work, and had a few of my cars hang up when uncoupling. The couplers wouldn’t pull off to the side completely when over the magnet, making the “delayed” feature inoperative. “Ah”, I said to myself, “a little graphite’ll make this go away”. Wrong-o, still hanging up. I realized that under the influence of the magnetic uncoupling ramp, the “brake hose” is not only being pulled to one side, it’s also being pulled down due to the magnetic attraction. When diddling with the coupler by hand, I noticed a very rough feel when pushing the coupler down as I moved it from side to side. (I was pushing down very little, just enough to engage the coupler stem with the little metal clip.) Prying the clip loose and feeling the edge confirmed a very rough edge, no doubt as a result of the stamping process used to make this little part we all are so fond of. A few strokes with a needle file got rid of the burr and when it was all reassembled the problem was gone. The area of concern is the edge right under the coupler shank when viewed from the rear of the car. If you’re having problems, take a look at this edge and if you find burrs, well, as they say, “There’s your problem”.
Maybe a thread title change…but that has been a known problem, roughly for 50 yrs. You would only know if you built many Athearn Blue Box kits. They were not all that way, but you would find one, once in awhile. [bow]
Your post is a timely reminder. In fact, if you read Kadee’s instructions they advise removing all burrs, even from their own product.
I just received four BB Canadian Pacific 40’ box cars purchased on eBay and I am in the process of bringing them up to the NMRA RPs. I have to admit that in the past, after correcting coupler height and any other obvious problems, all I have done is give the couplers a couple of flicks with my fingernail and if they bounce back to center that’s as far as I go. If they are sticky then they get a shot of graphite. That seems to cure almost all of the problems but like you said, the couplers are not under load. I will have a look at the BB coupler clips now that you have reminded me.
In all my years of dealing with Kadee conversions on BlueBox cars I have come across quite a variation from the molding of the coupler box (part of the center sill molding except on reefers and a few others) sometimes there is a nice clean parting line and the two angled tabs that engage the stamped metal cover are nicely formed.
A bit of clean-up before assembling the car will help here. I have also noticed a wide margin in the stamping quality of the covers. Sometimes they are a softer steel that does not “snap” over the tabs. On these you need fine pliers to give a little squeeze to the sides of the stamping after assembly. Sometimes just a careful push with the tip of a flat screw driver will push the tabs in place. Lots of my early stuff (1970s-'80s) seems like the steel covers were hardened more and would snap in place better.
I try to keep a stock of these covers around so I can toss the ones that don’t quite pass muster… and to replace the ones that mysteriously disappear from the occasional car on the layout!
Request: Can anyone post a photo of the area being discussed? I don’t think I’ve experienced this problem but I want to be ready as I literally have a lot of new packs of KD couplers standing by as I purchase locos /rolling stock and proceed to dump the “EZ-Mate” type plastic couplers that they’re equipped with. [8D]
The OP is talking about the standard Athearn Blue Box coupler system. The Athearn system used a molded coupler pocket with a steel retainer clip to hold the coupler and spring in place:
This is the coupler pocket (I’m pretty sure you have seen one or two of them before):
This is the clip with the coupler and spring. In this case you can clearly see that the clip needs to be cleaned up, but even with a new clip there may be burrs on the edge of the clip where the coupler shank slides against it:
This is where the clips may need to be filed. The one on the right is the rusty clip shown previously. The one on the left is brand new right out of the Athearn parts bag. The new clip wasn’t bad but the clean-up certainly didn’t hurt it:
The OP is simply suggesting that if you are working with Athearn BB kits that you take the time to make sure that there are no burrs, or in this case corrosion, on the clip. Even if the clip looks clean, you might be suprised at what you will find when you pass a file over the inside surfaces.
I hope that wasn’t too obvious an explanation. Please forgive my running on at the mouth if it was.
In my experience, those little metal clips suck. I have had more than my share of coupler failures due to the inability of the clips to stay in place over time. The clip is particularly true if the clip has been removed and replaced, even just once.
My solution is to keep a batch of new clips on hand. As soon as one clip fails, it gets immediately replaced with a new metal clip.
I have found it helpful to bend the sides of the clips in a bit. If you look at the clips closely you will see that the sides are not quite perpendicular to the bottom. In fact if you look at the clips when they are in place you can see that there is a slight gap between the molded coupler pocket and the upper edges of the clip. I use a pair of smooth jawed needle nose pliers to bend the edges of the clips in so that when they are installed the edges fit tight to the coupler box.
The other thing I have noticed is that quite often the clips do not fully seat themselves around the protrusions on the sides of the coupler pockets that fit into the holes on the sides of the clip. The clips may look like they are in place but if you give them a good firm squeeze quite often they will ‘snap’ all the way into position.
I agree, they are fussy (female dogs) but if they can be made to work properly they are a lot less hassle than installing Kadee coupler boxes.
Dave, I totally agree with everything that you are saying. But, that said, I still have problems with re-seating a clip once removed. Maybe it is me, but I gave up long ago trying to re-use the ciips. I just replace them with new ones.
You are probably on the right track to do that. As has been mentioned, and in my own experience, the Athearn clips will withstand precious little bending. In other words, you can get away with adjusting it ONCE! Beyond that you are pushing your luck.
[quote user=“davidmbedard”]
Perhaps a change in thread title will help those who have this issue.
David B/quote]
Is it the O.P.’s use of the word “HACK” as opposed to “PROBLEM” that you feel obscures the title? If so, I would agree; but, then, “I’m out of touch” with the latest jargon!
I used to have a lot more Athearn BB cars on my layout. Most have been replaced with higher detailed car kits. However, of all the BB kits I built, I never had this problem and was unaware that it could be a problem! So, thanks for bringing this to my attention. My 12 year old grandson loves trains and I build Athearn BB kits for him, when I can find them. I will keep this in mind.
Being a former stamping company owner and tool and die maker, this thread got my curiosity up! There are two sides to a cut edge made, during the stamping process, the breakage side and the burnish/rollover side. In this case, this part should have been stamped inverted to the way it is, which would have left the burnish/rollover (smooth) side towards the coupler shank.
I had enough of these coupler pockets fail that I started cutting them off and replacing them the Kadee coupler pockets, screwed to the cars underside. At times the Athearn pockets were difficult to get to stay at a certain height, due to the fact that the pocket was a full inch or more away from the screw that held the trucks, underframe and body all in position. Also, the snap fit feature of the covers to the coupler pocket was weak. S
The only good thing about the clip is, if you bang the cars a bit too hard, the coupler will fall off rather than break the car.
The bad thing about that clip is, if you bang the cars too hard, the coupler will fall off.
I did work out a way with thin needle nose pliers to go in around the top edge (with open hoppers anyway - 99% of my AThearn BB cars are hoppers) and crimp the clip a bit, haven’t had any just randomly fall off. It’s also much easier to assemble them if you use the whisker couplers instaead of the old standby #5, one less piece to try and hold in place.
However, using a screw is really the best solution. A-Line makes a nice jig that fits over the nub in the coupler box so the hole and tap run nicely centered. There are of course 2 jigs, one for the drilla nd one for the tap sicne they aren;t the same diameter. I just have the drill one, once the hole is there, I cna tap it verticially straight without extra guidance.
Same here, although I probably have around 20 or so blue box freight cars left. I imagine KD’s with burs are fairly rare. When I used to build kits more often, it was a habit of mine to give a couple passes with a small flat file to the KD shank before dropping them in just for good measure.
All of the above I’ve found to be issues I’ve dealt with too. Most, if not all of my Athearn blue box couplers would be too low after I added the KD’s and tested them with my KD height gauge - chronic problem. I’ve had to both add KD washers to the trucks and bend the coupler pockets up a little as well to get them high enough to match it. Its true for most of my MDC cars as well.
I have found that the clips often have a rough edge as well as rust on some clean the clip with a file and burnish it with graphite.
Another problem with the BB cars is the coupler box tends to move up and down enough to change the height .This seems to happen with some of the coupler boxes with a load of cars stressing it. I have found if you glue the plastic box on the end of the underframe to the underside of the carbody or the weight it prevents this movement. Some of thes cars seem to have this problem more than others.
Thats a particular issue with the 85/86’ cars like the TOFC flat cars and 86 auto box cars - I forgot I have a bunch of those still. The TOFC cars I cut off those tabs that force the couple tongue to move back and forth and just glued the darn tongue to the underbody. If you have decent curves like 30" radius and #6 turnouts, they operate ok and don’t flex up or down. Ultimately Walthers solution for their long cars works best.
Another thing in this photo is the rust on the clip, another common clip problem on older BB kits. even if there is no burr, the rust should be cleaned off. It is rough and will interfere to coupler operation.
