Dr Wayne demonstrates to the class that a silk purse can be made of a sow’s ear.
The more work you put into them, the more craft, the better the result. Excellent!
Yes, very nice work. How long did they take you?
David B
The Athearn Streamline passenger cars are loosly based on Santa Fe cars. Only the RPO and Baggage are the correct length. The Coach, Diner, & Observation are shortened by about 12 scale feet.
The Dome is a shortened version of the Pleasure Dome used on the Super Chief.
The Heavy weights are about the same. The RPO and Baggage are close to prototype length but the rest are shortened. The heavyweight Pullman has one side reversed. The car is a 12-1 with the 1 Drawing Room missing making it a 12 section car. The washrooms were diagonal from each other on hte prototype Pullmans not across from each other. It would be quite a project to correct the reversed side of the car. Looking at the car the washroom would be at the end on the left.
There are several Athearn passenger cars in the collection. I’ve even made a two unit coach in SP Daylight using Athearn coaches and MDC Challenger trucks. The only thing correct about it is the length of 134 scale feet.
Thanks to all for the kind words. [:)]
The steel baggage car was the easiest, made from the leftover halves of two Athearn baggage cars - you’ll notice that the doors are the same size. I don’t recall where the other two halves went, but most likely to make another wood-sided car - for them, only the roof and ends were used.
The wood-sided cars, as noted, use only the Athearn roof and ends - the sides are removed, although I sometimes salvage some of the window frames, as windows in baggage cars were fairly common in my modelling era. The sides are Evergreen styrene car siding, along with various sizes of styrene strip, and the doors are built-up mostly from sheet styrene. The floors and underframes are scratchbuilt, with added details from PSC and New England Rail Service. I got a half dozen-or-so used Athearn Pullmans and coaches, along with two baggage cars and modified them all at the same time, so I couldn’t say how long it took for any particular car. The CNR cars probably took the longest, as I had photos from which to work, so included some additional underbody detail:
The shortened observation car, now a business car, was cut-down, but not re-assembled, about 50 years ago. I “rediscovered” it while looking for something else and decided to make use of it. The air conditioning duct is .010" sheet styrene, and a new floor and underframe was built-up from .060" styrene, with underfloor detail from various sources.
While some may turn up their nose at the old Rivarossi passenger cars, they’re also useful fodder for kitbashing. This combine was formerly a diner:
The standard Rivarossi coach, as shown below,
[IMG]http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/doctorwayne/passeng
Many modelers would answer to the question “how accurate?” - “not very.” Aside from the incorrect length, the choices are somewhat limited, and Athearn hasn’t added any new variations for a long time… For example, there are no combines (combination baggage/passenger car), lounge cars, parlor cars, dormitory cars, etc. The Pullman car is a 12-1 whereas there were many variations of the Pullman interior layout. On the positive side, Athearn cars are available in a wide variety of road names, come in steam era and streamline versions, are affordable, and operate on narrow radius curves.
Dang it Wayne, you have a way of making everybody forgetting what the heck the thread was about in the first place. [swg] My jaw finally hit the keyboard when I got to the Rivarossi Doodlebug. Is it powered by a NWSL truck? Awe-inspiring work! [bow]
I’m also intrigued by the 4 wheel trucks you used on the modified Athearn baggage car – where did they come from?
I think those trucks have roller bearings! Id like to know what they are, too, as I seem to have a pair, acquired used. They roll and equalize well. Origin unknown.
It is interesting to read about people’s priorities. The Athearn cars seem to appeal to kitbashers as raw material, or to guys who are not that concerned with passenger car accuracy, being more concerned with other things. Not that there’s anything wrong with that!
When I designed my railroad, the object was to use full length cars, on the broadest radius possible that would fit in a typical room. I ended up with a 12’ by 14’ double track mainline, with yards in two of the outside corners; a great big oval. It was inspired (in part) by a circular British portable RR called “The Bishop’s Egg”. Eventually I could build a proper basement (with a house over it) so I re-designed the railroad to fit a somewhat larger space. But really, the whole thing is designed to “support” (silly computer word) fast passenger trains of the WWII era, not only full length cars but full length trains. It is still an oval (and no, I don’t like NASCAR).
The 63’ and 67’ lengths are from the Athearn listing in an old Walthers catalogue from the nineties…not that Athearn has always labelled everything correctly of course!!
The Post Office practice was to have Railway Post Offices in lengths of 15 feet, 30 feet, and 60 feet. Thus, with little exception, RPO cars with postal sections less than 60 feet were combination cars which included a non-RPO baggage/express section. Undoubtedly, that’s why the SP/T&NO 40-foot pure RPO cars were modified to reduce the RPO length and a baggage/express section substituted. If a train included what looked like having more than one RPO car, most likely the other ones had been converted to mail storage cars unless they were being deadheaded.
Mark
Just so everyone is clear, the Athearn heavyweight RPO is 67 scale feet long and is actually a RPO - baggage combine. The RPO end is close, but not exact for a 30’ RPO section. Closing up a window or two makes it closer.
Athearn has always just called it an RPO, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen Athearn literature discribe the length. Walthers catalogs have contained a misprint or two over the years.
Sheldon
OK, I checked the Athearn website and they do call the RPO (which I agree is an RPO - Baggage combine) a 67’ car, and it calls all the other cars (including the baggage car) 70’ cars. Of course, many people say these cars are 72’ long…??
Before you close up any windows, be aware that baggage/express portions of the cars may contain windows. Also, for instance, at least one class of Southern Pacific RPO/Baggage cars was built exterior-wise as a 30-foot RPO section, but only contained a 15-foot section interior. This would allow for an expansion to a 30-foot RPO easier, if needed.
If windows aren’t protected with bars on your models, you might consider adding that detail.
I’m sure expressmen appreciated windows while performing their duties aboard the train.
Mark
How about that, Athearn makes progress every day. Notice not all the discriptions note the length.
Well here on the ATLANTIC CENTRAL we can always just say WE ordered are cars in these lengths. And there is lots of prototype examples of railroads prefering or having specific need of shorter passenger cars. Do some research on the Harriman passenger equipment!
Sheldon
Sorry, Nelson - I didn’t mean to take the thread off-topic. [
] Thank you for the kind words, though. [:)]
The trucks on that baggage car were in a box of odds ‘n’ ends from a friend - he didn’t know who made them, either. They’re all-metal, with working springs - perhaps not the proper style for such a car, but I liked their appearance, so used them anyway. [swg]
The doodlebug uses the truck and front half of the frame of an Athearn F7. I used Detail Associates C-Liner sideframes - not correct, but at least a little less recognisable than the Blomberg style. Power is through an Athearn drive train, using a Mashima can motor.
I used Athearn passenger car wheels in the Rivarossi truck on the rear end, arranging them and adding axle wipers so that they could contribute to the power pick-up, too.
I also added a very basic interior, at least to the passenger section, and some styrene window shades (the inside vestibule wall is part of the roof):
ANd now, to plug another hole.
The Athearn Streamline Coaches ARE based on a Prototype. The orignal Budd Stainless Steel coaches were 72’ and had the same number of windows. SF used them for CHief, before they got sent to New Jersey, and some of them went to Indiana Transportation Museum, as I modeled them. Now, yes. You could probably whip out the scale ruler, and tell me the windows are a foot off, but there is a base desgin.
The coaches AREN’T shortened anything, but the dome and others may be a different story.
/end pet peeve
You mean like this one built in 1937? for the scout?http://www.azrymuseum.org/roster/Diablo_Canyon.JPG
See there is a prototype for everything!
Sheldon
The Athearn 72’ streamlined coach has 13 windows, while the prototype pic that Sheldon posted a link to only has 11. Maybe they changed them? I dunno, but it doesn’t look like the Athearn “has the same number of windows” as the prototype. Same length? Sure. Same thing? Nope.
Sheldon,
A “prototype for everything”, eh? Then please tell me where I can find New Haven Vista Domes, New Haven Stainless Steel RPO’s in NH paint, New Haven stainless baggage cars, New Haven 72’ stainless coaches, New Haven 72’ stainless Diners, and New Haven 72’ stainless Observations…all built by Budd, of course. I figure that will be a pretty good trick considering that the NH bought all their stainless loco-hauled passenger cars from Pullman and they were all over 80’ in length. [:D]
Paul A. Cutler III
Weather Or No Go New Haven
Paul, Flashwave and anyone still listening,
Of course there is not a prototype for everything, that was just a little humor aimed those who think they know everything.
While it is very likely that Athearn used the Santa Fe cars as the basis for their streamliners, they are all still off by quite a bit on a number of details. So IMHO, they are totally freelanced even if some guy looked a pictures/drawings of the ATSF cars while designing them.
BUT, simple fact does remain that the ATSF had a large fleet of streamlined, lightweight 73’-6" and 77’-6" chair, coach, lounge and parlor cars built by Budd in the thirties. AND, they had 70’ streamlined baggage cars and 60’ streamlined RPO cars. Not to mention the SP articulated cars which all had body lengths less than 80’
So once again, not all passenger cars are 80’ long, not even all “modern” lightweight passenger cars. In fact, if we did an inventory of every pasenger car that ever turned a wheel in North America, I’m betting less then half where 80’ long. So I guess even accurate models of that half of the North American fleet would still look “Athearny” or “toy like” to some modelers?
I don’t know why the ATSF and Budd chose to build these shorter cars, but I’ll bet there was a good reason. So if they where good enough for the ATSF, they are good enough for the ATLANTIC CENTRAL. The joys of protolancing!
Now for some Athearn trivia - The orginal items in the line of Athearn streamliners, the RPO, coach, dome and observation, where first sold under the Globe name in the early 50’s and the kits had all seperate parts. The floor, sides, roof, ends and vestibule inner wall (now not included) where all seperate pieces that had to be glued together. Later Athearn retooled them into their current two piece form. I suspect to make them easier to offer RTR for their original go a
Yep, I have three I just assembled not too long ago. I dislike the weights, and the pegs in the floor are a nuisence. One easily solved with a nail trimmer. [:D] I have problems with the clips on the bottom of the walls, but that may just be me.
And see, I knew there would be details wrong. But for us as yet without the talents of Wayne and others, the Athearn is a closer prototypde for some cars than the too long Walthers.
I was told Chief but I agree, the Scout sounds closer. hat probably is the car, but I’m working from these: http://itm.org/equipment/coaches.htm Note: In the first picture, the combine is CB&Q Silver Salon, which is ~83ft. Also, they don;t have the window in the end
How long were the cars Budd built for the Zephyr?? I wonder if those cars were 72’ long (perhaps because of “sharing” trucks?) and so the early ATSF cars were built to same length, just because that’s what Budd was set up to build??
Someone who knows more than I do posted a while back that the Athearn lightweight cars seem to be an amalgam of details of a couple of different streamlined car types / manufacturers.