Atlantic Central / Sheldon -- Problems with CV Turnouts??

[jwhitten]

OK, but CV switch kits, well let me tell you, I built a few and you can keep them. They look great but I expect my trains to run and with a layout containing over 100 turnouts, I need something more durable than those things. Now days, when I need a custom turnout, I use the frog and points from an Atlas turnout to hand lay one.

Sheldon

Sheldon,

I hope you don’t mind me starting a new thread with this-- the other one was getting a little tired.

Your comment is the first negative comment about CV turnouts I’ve ever heard, aside from maybe price or effort involved. Would you be willing to elaborate your experiences with them? I’d like to hear your opinion (and anybody else’s as well). What is BAD about CV turnouts and why?

Thanks

John

[ATLANTIC_CENTRAL]

John,

First let me say that I have considerable experiance in hand layed track, so nothing about the CV turnout it was difficult or new to me. I will say however that I was not crazy about the idea of glueing the rail as they recommend. In any event, the glue issue had no effect on why I was not happy with the results.

First problem - the frog, as provided in the CV kit, is a small piece of plastic that recieves the two rails after you file them down. What they failed to tell me was that Atlas code 83 rail would not work correctly. That was what I had on hand.

Second problem/concern - the points are a soft cast metal, and while very detailed are also very fragile. I had no problem assembling them per the instructions, but as I made test runs with various locos they seemed loose and wobbly.

The throwbar is also a very prototypical detailed set of plastic castings, but required glueing for final assembly, leaving no way to repair or ajust it later.

The final product, while very detailed proved to be very fragile in the testing that followed. The points became loose in their pivots, and the throwbar, dispite being glued, failed to stay together under repeated operation.

I read later many people are using the CV tie strip but building their turnouts in the popular conventional manner with one piece closure rail/points, rather than using the CV points. Additionally, many are using frog castings from other manufacturers in place of the CV plastic frog.

It seems to me, that if one is going change all those parts, why not just use FastTracks or roll your own completely.

Personally, I now use Atlas code 83 track and turnouts and am very happy with the results.

When I do need a custom turnout, I disassemble a #6 or #8 Atlas and use the points/throwbar and frog to hand lay whatever curved or

[jwhitten]

John,

First let me say that I have considerable experiance in hand layed track, so nothing about the CV turnout it was difficult or new to me. I will say however that I was not crazy about the idea of glueing the rail as they recommend. In any event, the glue issue had no effect on why I was not happy with the results.

First problem - the frog, as provided in the CV kit, is a small piece of plastic that recieves the two rails after you file them down. What they failed to tell me was that Atlas code 83 rail would not work correctly. That was what I had on hand.

Second problem/concern - the points are a soft cast metal, and while very detailed are also very fragile. I had no problem assembling them per the instructions, but as I made test runs with various locos they seemed loose and wobbly.

The throwbar is also a very prototypical detailed set of plastic castings, but required glueing for final assembly, leaving no way to repair or ajust it later.

The final product, while very detailed proved to be very fragile in the testing that followed. The points became loose in their pivots, and the throwbar, dispite being glued, failed to stay together under repeated operation.

I read later many people are using the CV tie strip but building their turnouts in the popular conventional manner with one piece closure rail/points, rather than using the CV points. Additionally, many are using frog castings from other manufacturers in place of the CV plastic frog.

It seems to me, that if one is going change all those parts, why not just use FastTracks or roll your own completely.

Personally, I now use Atlas code 83 track and turnouts and am very happy with the results.

When I do need a custom turnout, I disassemble a #6 or #8 Atlas and use the points/throwbar and frog to hand lay whatever curved or odd configuration I need.

Sheldon

Thanks for the reply. Are you aware of

[JoeinPA]

Gentlemen:

Thanks for the the discussion. It was informative and can serve as a model of what “pro” and “con” discussions should be on this forum. It shows that civility can be a very productive force in our hobby.

Joe

[JSperan]

Are you aware of the method that Joe Fugate recommends? Substituting a few pc ties and soldering the rails to those-- then everything else is cosmetic

Joe’s method does not use a commercial frog or points, you make your own using Fast Tracks point and frog helper tools. Joe uses a CV turnout tie section as the jig for building the soldered rail portion.

All you need buy from Central Valley are the turnout tie bases rather than the complete turnout kit. The switch stand detail kit is available separately from Proto87 stores. Fast Tracks for tools, PC ties, spikes, and ME rail.

Joe replaces the CV throwbar with a section of PC tie and replaces 8 other plastic ties with PC ties. The resulting soldered turnout is strong, has great tie plate detail, continuous point/closure rails/frog wing rails, each one a single piece of rail.

A tutorial is available on his Siskiyou Line Forum.

IMO, the resulting turnout looks better than handlaid and is strong. [2c]

[jwhitten]

Gentlemen:

Thanks for the the discussion. It was informative and can serve as a model of what “pro” and “con” discussions should be on this forum. It shows that civility can be a very productive force in our hobby.

Joe

Yeah, stick THAT in your pipe and smoke it!

[:D]

[jwhitten]

Are you aware of the method that Joe Fugate recommends? Substituting a few pc ties and soldering the rails to those-- then everything else is cosmetic

Joe’s method does not use a commercial frog or points, you make your own using Fast Tracks point and frog helper tools. Joe uses a CV turnout tie section as the jig for building the soldered rail portion.

Yes, I replied quickly without going into a lot of detail. But yes, I am aware of his recommendation and have read his write-up closely a number of times. That is the method I’m planning to use when I start learning how to build these things.

I really wish it were possible to run my railroad at 1:1 time and the rest of my life on a fast clock

Jwhitten

[dinwitty]

I have the CV turnouts on my Michigan City Module, and in testing and working it I find you still end up tweaking things around no matter what. I found the guard rails are to small so I use rail frogs. The ties have raised portions for the guard rails but the guard rails are still too low and I had wrong divergings and derails. I ended up filing the points to fit razor sharp on the stock rails as the tips were picking the flanges.

The point support design is okay but like before has to be glued. I used walthers goo but that loosens up because of the forces involved pushing points around so super glue is reccomended. Or else I will have to fashion some kind of PC tie rod with slots to drop the point tabs into. I don’t glue the rails, I spike beside the ties. I need spike holes for spikes. (drill holes maybe) . Because of some of my really specialized turnouts, I split off the turnout parts and placed them the best I could, keeping the point sections intact and frog areas. The turnout is curveable. I chose the CV turnout for max adaptability and keep detail. I think it can be inproved more but I can deal with it, whatever shortfalls there might be.