I just finished all of my track work on my Ho scale layout , however i hate it. At my rail joints, I nailed the track directly into the ply wood which causes it to bind in. to fix this i plan to redo my layout on 1’’ foam board. My biggest problem however is the atlas #4 turnouts i’m using. the frogs on the turnouts bump my proto 2000 wheels up, the points themselves cause all of my freight cars to derail when being pushed, and the alignment of the track is terrible and causes my 2-10-0 to pop right off the rail , even when going straight .
So my question is what is a higher end alternative to the atlas #4 switch . I’m not worried to much about price, i just want a good turnout. When I rebuild my layout I want to keep the SAME track plan so i need a turnout that matches it almost perfectly. My other layout is (or was until my cat used it a litter pan) n scale so besides bachmann ez track I’m new to ho scale . This is only a 5x7’ layout With a 4x2.5’ yard and turntable , so my space is very very limited.
Are these #4 customlines or are they snap-switches? That will make a difference when looking for a drop-in replacement.
Care must be taken with tracklaying. Most of the time, when people blame turnouts, the problem is actually in the way the track is layed around the turnout. Any kink, horizontal or vertical, will make it harder for trains to negotiate the irregular geometry of the turnout. Hard nailing, as you’ve described, can cause problems like this.
Yes nailing track has to be done with care to avoid pushing in the ties even a small amount, as that does narrow the gauge a bit. That is why many modelers now lay track on a thin layer of adhesive caulk. And cork roadbed not only decreases noise but raises the track a realistic amount from the ground around it. In fact on my layout I put down 5/8" plywood subroadbed and THEN cork roadbed for my main line. That way my sidings can be lower than the main line.
Turnouts. #4 Atlas turnouts are sharp of course, but should not give the sorts of problems you outline on a routine basis. Veteran track planner John Armstrong often advocated the use of #4s, pointing out that the effective equivalent radius curve was still broader than many guys used for the actual curves on their layout. Where space is limited, the combination of #4 turnouts and rolling stock suited to sharper curves (4 axle diesels, 40 and 50 foot freight cars, shorty passenger cars etc) can work and has worked for thousands of model railroaders –
Is there a chance you also nailed your Atlas turnouts? That would cause the same binding and narrowing of gauge if the nails go too far in.
Another technique is to slightly file the sharp edge of the point of the moving parts of the turnout, so that the flanges encounter a softer edge not a stabbing edge. Take it easy because it is easy to distort the gauge of the moving points when you do this.
With good track laying and some common sense in choice of rolling stock, track laid on cork roadbed and using Atlas #4s can result in a layout that operates very smoothly. And as with every other activity worth doing and doing well, all of this takes practice and trial and error.
I guess Shakespeare put it best. "“The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our Atlas #4s, But in ourselves, that we are underlings.”
An NMRA track and wheel gauge is an invaluable tool when looking for solutions to this kind of derailment. If the track has become distorted, or if you’ve got an issue with one particular car or locomotive, the gauge can tell you if the rail spacing is wrong or the wheels are out of gauge.
Pick up some basic Kalmbach books - particularly the “HO Primer”. Atlas has some books out as well, and there is a lot of good stuff in there.
The cornerstone to good model train operation and enjoyment is solid benchwork, track laying, and wiring. If these are done properly, the trains will run “as advertised”.
I’ve been in the hobby since the mid '50s, and have found it to be a very rewarding, interesting, and enjoyable pastime.
LION runs subway trains. Motors are in the middle of the consist. Ergo: Every run has the lead cars being pushed into the switches, one way or the other. LION uses lots of Atlas #4 switches, some #6 switches and even a few snap switches (against my better policy… but what I had on hand) All of the LIONS switches have been used on many layouts, none are new. All are held in place with spikes. LIONS use lots of spikes.
Ergo, Neither 4s nor Spikes cause my trains to derail. Geometry Geometry Geometry. (gee, I’m a tree)
Maybe your third rails are too close to the running rails…
When I’m nailing track down, I predrill a hole just a hair smaller than the track nail. This allows me to gently tap the nail in place using a small hammer and nail set. I stop when the nail head is just barely to the tie or even a hair above it. I do not nail turnouts down, but let the adjacent track hold them in place.
As suggested above, use an NMRA track gauge.
Atlas #4 turnouts are really #4.5. Other makers #4 may or may not be an exact replacement as some will be a true #4. Because a true #4 (that conforms to NMRA RP12.3) has a short section of 15" radius track you should stay with #4.5.
My turnouts are custom line. After little closer look at them it seems that cut out for the point to sit in causes my cars and steam locos wheel flange to jump off , however if i guide them to avoid the indent they seem to be fine. i haven’t got out to the hobby shop yet to buy a gauge so im not sure on the alignment issue but i will check up on that asap.
As someone on here posted a few years ago most Atlas turnouts are warped, if after installing the turnout push down on the frog and if it drops down about an 1/16 or so it is warped, you will have to nail the center of the turn out to keep the wheels from derailing. I had this same problem and after I nailed them down all derailments on turnouts went away, this applies to Ho and N scale # 4s and 6s. Just make sure you just make the turnout touch the road bed and not distort the gauge, take your time and you will see a difference. Good luck Jim.
If part of your problem is that the cutout in the stock rail railhead for the point is a sharp, square edge, that can be corrected with a little judicious filing to convert the sharp corner to a tapered edge.
My own stock rails aren’t notched. However, I lay my own specialwork, so I have complete control of the geometry, from the micro (points that, like the prototype, ride up on the rail base) to the macro (if I need a #6.263 frog, I file rail and solder it together.)
When you feel more comfortable about tracklaying, you might want to learn how to hand-lay your own specialwork. Once you master the fairly simple skills involved you’ll free yourself from the need to modify your track arrangements to suit Brand X turnout geometry. You’ll also be able to arrange track in ways that no commercial product can duplicate. (How about a three way switch with two routes curving left and one route tangent? How about two of them, non-identical? That’s the throat to my down local freight staging yard - and I’ll guarantee that you’ll never find the equivalent in a bubble-pack at your LHS…)
I pulled up the turnouts and first checked to see if they were warped , one of them was ever so slightly warped up. however the other turnouts seem fine , so i relaid them without hammering them in. however my pre walthers proto 2000 bl2 still jumps up on the frog, and my spectrum 2-10-0 still derails on the points even after filing down the little notch where the point meets the outside rail . I checked the gauge roughly with a ruler and compared to the rest of the track the gauge in the notch was almost 1/8 a cm off of alignment on every switch , even the new one i bought and never installed. so it seems to me the quality of the turnout is not meant to handle a 12 wheel locomotive . however i may be wrong.
After looking at some hand laying stuff i just don’t feel comfortable doing it . I would consider buying a jig to make switches if it would be cost effective, however when a jig is 200 dollars and i only need 4 turnouts for my main line i just don’t think that’s in my budget.
If they are Custome Line #4, and not Snap-Track, I will guarantee you your loco wheels are out of gauge. I had this same issue on my previous layout, and EVERY loco or car that bumped on the turnous was proven to have out of gauge wheels when using the NMRA gauge. On locos liek P2K it is an easy fix, the wheels are stuf axles in a plastic gear so you can adjust them in or out as needed. You shoudl keep the spacing even on both sides, otherwise the truck will run skewed. A common issue if that if replacing the gears due to cracked gears, the wheels get pushed in as far as they go - this is NOT correct, the stop inside is merely to prevent the backs of ths tub axles from touching oen another and shorting, it does not indicate correct wheel gauge. FOr cars, it depends on the wheels. Some can be adjust ont eh axle by gently twisting, a drop fo CA should hold them in palce after adjustment. As a matter of course I replace any plastic wheels with metal, and I’ve used P2K wheelsets in everything they fit, dozens of pairs, and NEVER had one that was out of gauge.
I’ve used all Atlas track on many layouts over the years in both HO and N scale, and now have my second using the Custom Line instead of Snap Track, and like the previous one, I can run through fast or slow with no derailments and no bumps. I see no reason to use others unless I need something they don’t make - I do want to try my hand at hand laid at some point, but I se no need to spend 2-3x more for a Peco or Walthers.
Something else to consider, instead of nailing the track, try caulk. Less likely to make a mistake that can buckle or kink the track. Even if you had cork roadbed instead of the track on the plywood, if you drive the nails in too hard, it will still kink - potentially worse actually since the cork will ‘give’ a little. It’s not only vertical dips to watch out for, nailing the track too hard can also bend it inward and reduce the gauge, also potential for derailments and poor operation.
The other thing to watch out for is that the stock rails can slip and be out of alignment with the points. This can happen if there is too much pressure on the stock rail due to expansion, or it can just be mishandling over the years on the part of your track crews.
Thanks for the ideas, my freight car wheels are currently all RP25 except for my roundhouse cars, so il invest in replacing them. I will give the atlas turnouts another try on my new layout ,which i will put on 1’’ foam board and cork or foam roadbed (i have both on my layout now but i don’t know which one i like more). and i found little track pins that i can push into the foam and the roadbed with my fingers ,so i will give them a try .However what about my proto 2000 bl2 ? the flanges of the wheels bump up on the turnout , are there any solutions other than replacing the wheels?
Check the gauge on the wheels. I don’t know about this engine, but the Proto engines I have come with plastic gears and axles, and the metal wheels are a press-fit into them. If they are out of gauge, gentle hand pressure one way or the other can correct that.
I’m going to guess, though, that the track approaching the turnout doesn’t line up perfectly. Try pushing the engine by hand, or running it slowly, while you get very close so you can see exactly where the wheels start to lift. If the apporaching track has a very small upward slope and the turnout is flat, there will be a point where the front of the engine is lifted and has little weight on the front wheels, and then it will rock down. You need to correct that alignment problem.
Another common problem is curving a piece of flex track into the point end of a turnout. Atlas flex track is springy, and wants to go back to being straight track. If you look carefully at joints where curved flex meets a sectional straight track or turnout, you may notice that it’s not a perfect tangent. That sharp angle is a derailment waiting to happen. If possible, try to arrange your track plan to give you a few inches for the curve to straighten out before getting to the turnout. If you must join a curve to the point end of a turnout, I’d suggest soldering the two together on your bench, with the flex track still straight and relaxed, so that it will maintain a smooth curve when you glue it down.
If I sound like an expert, it’s only because I’ve created all these problems myself through my own lack of experience in tracklaying.
there are also some books on laying track and a few tips on track work from model railroader that you might find useful. I believe Jim H. and Andy S. have written some in the recent past. You may also go back and look at the recent project videos to see how to correct track issues. In reference to atlas track I put together a 4x8 layout with atlas track years ago for my children and they would run the trains for hours with them unattended and no derailments. I suspect that some minor error either in the laying of the track or issues with your rolling stock is the problem. Since it seems that some of the issues have been corrected with adjustment of your track the remaining issue would be your particular locomotive.
When trying to solve issues with track or wiring or anything for that matter I try to narrow the focus to what are the common denominators with all of the components first and eliminate things till I find something that continues to present fewer problems. In your case it seems that you now have it narrowed to primarily one loco.
In many instances a company that has been around for a long time like atlas will have a component blamed for somethingbut you have to then ask yourself if it is one item could I have gotten a bad one? If it is a lot of them is it something I did wrong? Otherwise how do they stay in business for over 50 years if they only make junk?
I would also get a small plastic level that measures vertical and horizontal level. I got one at Lowes for a couple of dollars.Your turnouts may not be level and need to be shimmed. This was a issue I had on one turnout. Hope this helps.
