Atlas turnout frog & dead zones

Henry,

What a great idea about the juicer. What type would I need? Here are two general kinds:

http://www.tamvalleydepot.com/products/dccfrogjuicers.html

For four #8 turnouts, the cost of a snap switch is more than a juicer. Also, I don’t have to wire four different turnouts. The instructions seem “plug n’ play”

Disclaimer, I haven’t needed them on my layout, though future construction with the Atlas curved turnout may change that. I’ve not read anything bad about them, but I’m sure some members must use them.

You can find better prices if you shop around, though I have never ordered from Traintek, Fast Tracks, I have at least heard of.

There are 3 types a single a dual and a hex. Less than 4 means a dual and a single, or a dual or a single, or a hex if you plan on future expansions.

An Atlas Snap switch relay is only $10 at modeltrainstuff.

It’s a Atlas snap relay…not a snap switch, there is a big differance in the name.

https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/search?search_query_adv=atlas+snap+relay

Easier for Him to wire, than a Frog juicer…and it is cheaper at 10 dollars apiece.

They are not just plug & play.

Take Care! [:D]

Frank

Frank I knew that, my fingers did not.

I have four Hex frog Juicers. They work flawlessly and are VERY simple to install and wire. Actually easier than a snap Relay since each (hex) Frog Juicer has two input wires, six output. Snap relays would have three actuator wires for the twin-coils, two N and S track wires and one frog wire.

Hex Frog Juicer, total wires = 8

Six Snap Relays, total wires = 36

Hex Frog Juicer at Litchfield Station: $66. ($11/frog)

Six Snap Relays @ $10. ea. $60. tax, shipping not calculated

Also, if throwing multiple Atlas solenoids, say four in a crossover situation, a CD unit may be needed, in addition, to kick all four solenoids at once. (Maybe one Snap Relay can be used to power two frogs at a crossover, though, reducing the number to three?)

Frog Juicers are DCC ONLY. I did not see the OP state he is running DCC. *Maybe he did and I missed it? *He did and I did[:$]

Some of the Atlas points are a plated pot metal, very shiny (and very fragile). Like the frog, impossible to solder to.

Cheers, Ed

The OP has had a couple previous threads where he said DCC.

Thanks, Henry. I tried to find other threads but couldn’t. The one he linked to didn’t say.

So a Hex Frog Juicer is still in the running [:|]

Regards, Ed

Frog Juicers are far easier to wire than the Snap Relay. With a Snap Relay, you need to make sure you have the two feeders connected to the correct terminals t the frog polarity is correct. If it’s not, you get a short, and need to swap the two wires. Frog Juicer, just hook two wires to the bus, and then one wire to each frog. 6 frogs, 8 wires to hook up, and the order of the two wires to the bus do not matter one bit. Snap Relays, 6 frogs, 36 wires, and the order of 2 of the wires to each relay matters. Yes, 36 wires - the 3 that control the coil, same as with the Atlas switch motors, 2 wires to the power bus, and one wire to the frog - PER Snap Relay.

And Frog Juicers are switch motor agnostic - Atlas solenoids, peco solenoids, Tortoise, Blue Point, Caboose ground throws, even the home made over center spring that’s been shown in the model press - doesn’t matter how you actually control the points.

–Randy

Frog Juicer 100% solid state, too.

If an Atlas Snap Relay doesn’t throw (mechanical solenoid, pin-in-slot, brass contacts) you’ll get a short, or if somebody throws the switch manually without also throwing the relay. Could happen.

I put my first HFJ in over five years ago. set it — forget it. LED indicators if needed are on the board for status state.

Cheers, Ed

Thanks for the explanation about the juicer and it’s advantages over the Atlas Snap Switch. I like that its’ much smaller, easier to wire, and more tech-like than the Atlas.

One question with the juicer: can I use 16 gauge wire or must I use 20+? I don’t want to fry the frog but would prefer not to buy 20+ gauge wire just for the juicers.

While I regret having to buy something else for the turnouts, I would rather not have to commit to more wiring.

Can a Dual or Hex Juicer be used across circuit breaker regions or power districts with separate boosters?

Here’s the directions for the Hex Frog Juicer

http://www.tamvalleydepot.com/images/Hex_Frog_Juicer_Manual_v2.1.pdf

16 would be OK for the inputs from your DCC buss. Don’t you have finer wire coming from the frog? There you would want 22 to 28 gauge so you don’t have to use too much heat to solder it to the brass screw that you thread into the eye of the frog. You could attach heavier wire to the juicer (18-20 ga.) then splice finer closer wire to the frog.

This statement is in the first paragraph of the instructions. To me it isn’t very clear but I guess it would be OK?

Installation of the Hex Frog Juicer (HFJ) is simple. Place the board on a non-conducting surface (wood or wallboard). Connect the 2 pin terminal block to the track bus. It should be in the same power block as the frogs will be (but not necessarily if you are powering frogs across the layout). Connect a single wire from each frog to any one of the pins on the 6-pin terminal block - it doesn’t matter in which order. You are done.

Regards, Ed

I thought it was also to have the proper resistance but I’m not sure why I thought that, but the specs for the mono juicer specify a frog-juice distance of 3’ while the hex is 15’ A 16 ga wire on the frog is going to look fugly.

The directions say the input to the FJ should not run via a circuit breaker, but connect directly to the booster. Any booster should do.

You wouldn’t want to put the frog juicer downstream from a circuit breaker. If your layout is big enough for multiple booster, you probably have a lot more than 6 turnouts. The Juicers for all frogs controlled by one booster should get their power from that booster, and the Juicer for frogs in the section controlled by the second booster should be powered from that booster. Theoretically crossing sections should work - turnout gets power from Booster A but the Juicer for the frog gets power from Booster B - but ONLY if the booster common is actually connected - for Digitrax this is the terminal on each booster and command station provided for the purpose, for NCE you attach a wire to one of the case screws. Best bet - each booster power district gets its own Juicers. Guaranteed to work with no hassles that way.

–Randy

I think the green wire I soldered to my frogs is one size thicker than my usual feeder - because that’s what was available. It’s #18 or #20. Soldered to the brass screw - but I put the brass screws in before putting the turnouts on the layout. So I ran the screw in from the bottom, then sut the excess off flush witht he top and painted the exposed brass black. The I stripped the wire, laid in in the slot in the screw head, and soldered it, never came close to melting the frog loose like happened when I first attempted to solder a wire directly to the pot metal Atlas uses. Even with the blackening cleaned off - it doesn’t take solder.

–Randy