Fox (came up on another site) ran a story about someone trying to derail trains. As the world gets less sane, are they going to have to keep something like a hi-railer running about a mile in front of trains just to make sure the tracks are safe?
With the current rules in place on most Class 1’s - you cannot have a train follow a vehicle moving on a MofW Track Occupancy Authority in the same track segment. Track segments exist from Contol Point to Control Point or within the specified ‘track car’ limits with Track Warrant Control (Dark Territory).
Could that be changed if there were far more derailments due to tampering? Rail systems are not, in any way, tamper-resistant. One man with a spike puller and a few tools could easily cause derailments. With our open borders, we could have many who wish to cause havoc doing just that. 50 years ago, this wasn’t an issue. Today? Who can say?
How many on track personnel do you want to kill?
Back in the day - On Track MofW vehicles operated on a ‘Track Car Line Up’ wherein the Dispatcher would issue a ‘Line Up’ of trains that would be operating over the territory the MofW person desired to traverse - with specific operational elements of the train(s) operating characteristics being mentioned. The MofW person getting the Line Up had the authority to occupy the track PROTECTING HIMSELF against all the train(s) listed on the Line Up.
The number of damaged MofW vehicles, depending upon specific territory and competence of the MofW work force would be one or more yearly per carrier operating division. Some incidents ended in fatalities and some didn’t. A high price to pay. Since then the rules authorizing exclusive track occupany for MofW have been in existence. Safety!
I suspect tampering has been a potential issue ever since the ‘Laying of the First Stone of the B&O’ that happened on July 4, 1828. Tampering has caused fatal accidents in the past. Movement of its own issues, create accidental occurences. Walking, slipping, tripping and falling go hand in hand up to highway accidents and on to the sinking of the Titanic and other maritime accidents and all the aircraft incident up to the space shuttle accidents. Human movement is dangerous.
Why do you think I want anyone to be killed. Are you saying that, if tampering became a more common problem that the railroad couldn’t have a small vehicle working as a team member with an engineer in a locomotive?
I’m not talking about a weed sprayer or a MoW tamper on the track. A dedicated vehicle capable of keeping its distance from the train, in constant communication with the engineer (where necessary) and that the train’s engineer is aware of (a mile or more ahead) to check the track.
The report said that the train actually did derail but managed to realign with the trak. This was an Amtrak train.
What he was doing was so simple that a 10yo could do it.
If you’re telling me that having the track pre-run by a vehicle is idiotic, sobeit but I’d like to see someone put forth a solution that could prevent derailments from tampering. This is only going to get worse.
First of all, how many trains are currently being derailed by malicious intent? Do you have a link to your story. Your source is known for creating fear for “real Americans”. Your comment about the borders shows me what you think. There are plenty of native born idiots, it doesn’t have to a “furriner”.
It was actually a fox story that was on the MSN website. The guy’s name (who was arrested) was Cleveland man Joseph Findley, 43.
Are you trying to make me seem like a racist? I’m not saying that everyone coming over the border illegally is a terrorist but there have been many on the FBI’s terror watch list caught and I’m sure many more got through. Cleveland man Joseph Findley, 43
Your lack of railroad understanding is exceeded only by your arrogance.
I ask a simple question and I’m accused of wanting to kill people and of being a racist.
What’s arrogant about asking follow-up questions.
I understand… go away. Done.
I tried to cancel my account and got a 404 error.
You don’t accept the answers that were developed in the blood of many casualties over the years. Railroad rules are created out of the blood spilled in situations that the rules were developed, written and implemented to prevent occurring in the future.
Why did you even have to bring up the border? It didn’t have anything to do with the border or illegals. I never called you a racist. Look up what the term means. Most Mexicans are Caucasian. Although, that may say a lot about what you think of them.
There have been videos on-line of people throwing everything from bicycles to washing machines on the tracks trying to derail trains, to no avail.
I saw a video once of a section of rail that was completely unspiked from the ties, held in place only by the joint bars connecting it to the adjoining rails. Cars rolled over it just fine, even as the rail was flailing up and down.
There is also the well-known video from WWII of the Army trying to derail trains (with minimal results).
There is no need to damage track structure to cause a derailment. A heavily loaded semi will do just fine, and a hi-rail vehicle running in front of a train will not counter that.
Besides - have you ever watched a war movie? They never blow up the tracks until just before the train arrives…
It seems like a fair question to me. I don’t know what type of method would be likely to use to address the problem. But generally, the solution would be increased security, including all forms of surveillance. I recall that in the wake of the 911 attack, there was much heightened concern about terrorist attacks and ways to prevent them. Railroads in particular were cited as vulnerable potential targets for terrorism, especially considering their hauling of hazmat which was regarded as being used as a potential element of a terrorist attack.
I would say that the potential risks for terrorism are much higher today than they were right after 911. Regarding the southern border, the point is the number of people coming in and the national need to know who they are before they are allowed to enter.
That seems over the top to me. Since when are we all required to accept answers? Sometimes answers are wrong. The old saying that railroad rules are written in blood is nothing to be proud of. The point is to spot danger and address it before blood is spilled.
Long ago I used to be a Army Forums Moderator on Military dot com. This forum is really tame by comparison. For any discussion forum if your new this is fairly normal treatment from established posters. You have to keep in mind your not the first poster that asked a question and you also have to respect other peoples experiences might be different from your own. If you leave and cancel your account then you turn off the opportunity to learn. If I was in your shoes I would stick around a little more and get to know the posters here. Just my two cents of course from past experience.
One example: Army Rangers and Special Forces only respond well to well researched and questions that are to the point because that is how they were taught in part to communicate, so they have no patience otherwise…just a cautionary note if you post on their websites, otherwise your going to leave with your hair on fire.[:D]
This forum is very mild in comparison.
With railroads attempting to cut employment to the bare minimum (or beyond), having a hi-railer precede every train is a nonstarter. What about the lines where their top speed is less than train speed?
…somewhere in the deep dark recesses of the Kalmbach mothership, Brian Schmidt is seen frantically rummaging through the confines of the Trains cold storage closet looking for the Bergie-tizer.[:-,]
This is simply not true, to a degree.
CN’s CTC system allows a train to proceed through a TOP on signal indication as long as the train has an authority to protect against the foreman in charge of the TOP. We routinely get permissive signals through work limits with the foreman giving us intructions to what mile we’re okay up to as they clear track ahead of the train.
Heck I closed up behind a rail grinder a few months ago. We were both in the same siding for a meet.
That is a snotty reply.
As it was intended.
With a 51+ year railroad career I have known too many individuals that did not survive their simple mistakes. Railroading is a unforgiving enviornment, and the costs for foolish thoughts are high, deadly high.