I’ll wait for Doug DeMuro’s review.
Thhhhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiisssssssssssssssssssssss is the Amtrak Autotrain!
The original founder of Auto-Train probably choose Lorton, Va for several reasons:
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Back then the land was cheap in that suburb.
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It broadened his market base by allowing a short drive from the major cities North of there. Short drive was of course defined in how long it took to drive the distance in 1971. He choose Louisville, KY over Chicago, IL for similar reasons.
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I suspect that having a what???.. 50 car passenger train traverse the NEC, might be problematic at it’s slower speed vs the rest of the corridor traffic. Not sure if Amtrak would be happy with that idea these days. Also, have no idea on how slow it has to go to use the crossovers with the auto racks on the back but I suspect switching tracks or pulling over that monster onto a siding is slower with Auto-Train than it is with a regular passenger train.
Let me see, a drive from New York to the DC area in 1971, barring any incidents / accidents on the NJ Turnpike would have taken around four hours, give-or-take. I was there, I know. (Gee, I feel like Dave Klepper! What a rush!)
Now? Again with no NJ Turnpike issues or DC traffic issues you have to figure on five or six hours. You might still make it in four with ideal conditions but I wouldn’t bet on it. Let me put it this way, the fastest I’ve ever driven from North Jersey to my current home in the Richmond VA area (360 miles) is five and a half hours. 25 years ago, conditions were perfect and I’ve never been able to duplicate the run.
I forgot the overhead catenary on the NEC, shame on me. I don’t think those Auto-Rack cars would fit under it, but I could be wrong. Wouldn’t surprise me if I was.
A 50 car Auto-Train? Last time I saw one and was able to count the cars the consist was 40 cars. I see your point with switches and crossovers but there’s plenty of them on the way from Lorton to Florida. They manage.
Yes and no. Some places autoracks fit (at least our regular generic freight autoracks), other places they don’t. Autoracks normally use the NEC to get to Baltimore and Wilmington from Perryville daily.
Thanks Zug! Good to know!
I don’t see any problem with Auto Train’s racks running from Ivy City up to Kearny or wherever they would diverge from the electrified ex-PRR. Dome restrictions are not the same thing, and I seem to remember plenty of traffic at the GM plant near Bayway or wherever it was. Might have been fun to buy a couple of E44s and paint 'em purple. You’d get at least the speed possible further south; we could ask Joe what the fastest speed of private equipment like that would be, or Jack Neiss or Noel Weaver who would have some thoughts. The big problem of slack management is of much less importance on the NEC, and of course the U36Bs could hustle as much as necessary. The issue collapses, as originally indicated, to how you get the train ON the PW&B in the first place.
This was in the days nothing but Metroliners ran much above 80mph anywhere, and 70mph freight was blistering. One long consist that could easily be scheduled off-peak for any commuter district would not have been tough to accommodate.
I think I have told the story of riding the Metroliner in 1969. My father dropped us off about 15 minutes to train time (we were a bit late) and took off to drive to Washington. We ran down, frequently peaking at 100mph… only to discover my father standing on the platform, having driven to Silver Spring, picked up our hosts in DC, driven to the station and parked in the meantime. You could not do that today, but he certainly did it then, and in a '66 Lincoln to boot.
Mike weighs in :
Auto Train
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/30/AR2010123004477.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/30/business/30garfield.html
Eugene Garfield: People Making Business a Success (Business in Broward magazine, September 1992)
In 1969 rail passenger service in the United States was dying. It took a young entrepreneur to bring it back to life.
Thanks Mike, and thanks Vince for passing it on.
A personal note. I remember the Auto-Train passing though the Marine base at Quantico VA on the RF&P, this was 1974. The tracks ran past the Officer Candidate School, where I was in attendance at the time. (Oh brother! But that’s another story.)
Let me tell you, that thing flew through the base!
The current Auto Train is limited to a maximum of 70 mph. Maybe out west on the BNSF transcon with 90 mph running, the autoracks might be allowed to go a little faster.
If Amtrak wanted to have an NEC Auto Train from somewhere near New York City to Washington DC, (probably Lorton, VA), they would have to order new autoracks with lower height. The F40PH at 15’ 7 1/2" cleared the catenary on the NEC, so the new autoracks could be about this height.
Trinity Rail, who make autoracks, did a study and found that 45.6% of cars and trucks are less than 60" in height (in 2008). Motor Trend magazine shows that 2020 pickup trucks and SUVs are less than 81" in height, although we should remember that older trucks could be higher.
Autoracks are constructed with 31 1/2" from floor to rail. If we allow 3" clearance for vehicle bounce, then we need the lower floor at 63" and the upper floor on bilevel autoracks at 84" in height. Adding 5" for roof and floor structure gives 183 1/2" or 15’ 3 1/2", which means that the upper floor could be about 88" to accommodate those older pickup trucks.
A new NEC Auto Train appears to be feasible and wanted, but it will probably never happen, because at present there is no leader with vision and gumption to get it done.
Why not just have single deckers? Loading and unloading would be faster.
Charlie, I think if it could have been done at the outset (1971) it would have been done. The problem is it would have really stretched the consist out. Last I looked (present-day) at least half the cars in a 40 car consist were the auto-carriers. (Could be wrong, though.) You’d wind up with a 60 car consist with single decker auto-carriers, at least.
I’d have to give the originators credit and assume single-level carriers were looked at but rejected, for a variety of reasons.
A bit of Auto-Train trivia. Originally, the auto-carriers were at the head end of the train behind the locomotives, the opposite of the way it’s done now. That didn’t last too long though, they found out that with the slack run-in during stops passengers were rolling around in the aisles! So they moved the carriers behind the passenger cars. Problem solved.
Best idea so far! No clearance issues.[Y]
I’m sure someone will find it flawed.
Would require the terminal to have twice as much track space to handle single level ‘racks’ and would also create a much longer train for whatever the passenger/vehicle load would be.
Last time I looked at Auto-Train past one of CSX’s Car ID scanners I believe there were 14 passenger cars and 25 auto carriers. As I recall, when I checked WAS NOT peak snowbird season in either direction; snowbirds would max out the CSX limited train length.
Are you saying that CSX has a limit of only 64 cars on freights?
Single level racks, even if requiring a second section, are cheaper than raising the vertical clearances, obviously.
It’s not so much a length limit on the train itself, it’s how much space is available in a dedicated terminal for that particular train.
Again, I’d be surprised if single-level carrier cars weren’t considered back in 1971, and then rejected for various reasons that made sense at the time.
Sometimes there just aren’t any perfect solutions, just compromises.
Still, in my humble (and inconsequential opinion) I’d have tried any solution to get that train as close to the major market for its services as possible.
A more northern locale such as the confluence of Interstates would become available
The limits for Auto-Train only apply to Auto-Train. Auto-Train uses passenger train brake schedule that allows for a partial brake release. Freight train brake release is a full release only.
Before CSX established their limits they were having braking issues with trains that were longer than the limits that were set.
Is there such a thing as single level auto carrier that’s covered and protected from rock throwers and thieves? If you have to build them new then that’s a huge disadvantage.
They have a bunch of new baggage cars and diners that are just sitting around right now…