Since I don’t know the territory, I’d try Multimodalways, but their CB&Q track charts are shown as having a file size of a staggering 818 MB !!! See: http://www.multimodalways.org/archives/rrs/CB&Q/CB&C.html None of the other ‘related’ railroad pages on that website appear to have this kind of info, though.
Perhaps our mutual good friend Sir MC would know, or know how to find out ?
Paul - I thought of him, but he seems to have a busy signal right now (as you probably know) Maybe when things calm down I can ask him. I hope I can still type by then…
What is or was the name of that branch or line, and where is Roca ? See this BNSF “Nebraska Operating Division” map (1 page, 11" x 17" size, approx. 2.72 MB electronic file size):
Looks like it’s now known as the “ST JOSEPH” [Nebraska, not Missouri] subdivision, Line Segment Number 3000.
Looks like Roca is about 10 miles south of Lincoln, about 2 -3 miles east of Centerville, at about these Lat./ Long. coords (per ACME Mapper 2.1): N 40 39.449’ W 96 39.675’ It’s not on the BNSF map, but by scaling from the ACME map, it seems to be near (2 -3 miles south of) Saltillo on the BNSF map, MP 198.1 ? Firth, MP 186.6 (11+ miles by rail), seems to be too far south. Might Roca be the unnamed dot or circle about midway between those two ‘Stations’ ? From the “Topo” map button on ACME Mapper, there seems to be a bluff and some quarries in that vicinity, as the BNSF line run s along a meandering creek there.
That looks like territory where a grade change took place - but I can’t correlate it with anything I’m seeing around Roca on ACME Mapper 2.1 (per my previous post).
Can you and the Driver head down that way sometime, and see what you can find ?
On your other point: As Al Krug said on one of his webpages, any grade - even a normally ‘shallow’ one - can be a tough grade, if the train is too long/ heavy and the power too light, etc.
After studying the ACME Mapper 2.1 depictions some more, I believe the “Roca” grade - and the separated alignments and grades shown in the railpictures.net photo that I linked above - are at either:
The Pella Rd. overpass, about 1.4 miles north of Firth, Neb., and about 7 - 8 miles southeast of Roca, at about these Lat. / Long. coords.: N 40 33.159’ W 96 36.308’
The Firth Rd. overpass on the northwestern corner of Firth, about 8 - 9 miles southeast of Roca, at about these Lat. / Long. coords.: N 40 32.295’ W 96 36.718’
At “Piersons Point”, about 2.7 miles southeast of Falls City, Neb., and about 80 miles southeast of Lincoln and Roca, at about these Lat. / Long. coords.: N 40 1.765’ W 95 34.242’ (this is not a likely location, though).
Paul - I appreciate all your help, but I don’t know what to do with the information. Even iff we could drive down to Roca, I don’t have a clue what we would look for or at. The Driver and I don’t usually wander off the reservation just because we aren’t youngsters any more and a trip to the grocery store is just about the farthest distance we go.
We have a friend that used to railfan down there all the time, but I haven’t even seen him around in about a year. If I do, I will ask him.
However, the pix do look very nice. They have done a lot of work and tidied it up so it really looks modern!
If any kind of coupler is a male/female arrangement (pin in funnel) you need one of each at each end of the car, offset symmetrically to prevent a male/male or female/female matchup if the cars aren’t turned the same way. Think of the way sectional model track joins with a joiner on each section. Two joints per end that have to work perfectly. The alternate is a face to face joint similar to the one inside a glad hand. This would need very tight tolerances. Remember that it has to be 100% compatible with the current system. You’d be surprised how many times I see Missabe ore cars with twin line brakes coupled to “normal” locomotives or cars after being set out. That system works either way and those trips are about 80 miles each way, not thousands. You think it’s bad here, you should see the Europeans string together a train with the buffers in the way.
You are right. That is exactly how the pin and funnel is arranged. Each end of the car has a pin and funnel side by side on opposite sides of the car center line. So, a pin on one car end always lines up with a funnel on an adjoining car end. The port blocks are on the center line.
On my invention, once I got an automatic air connector worked out, I gave it an extra set of ports, so it would make two air connections when it was coupled. One was for the brake pipe, and I added a second one for a bleeder line.
The bleeder line would be a second pneumatic line running through the train and connected to a small air cylinder operating the bleeder valve on each car. So when you tie onto a cut of air that you want to switch, you cut in the bleeder line and bleed the whole cut in a minute or so.
I’m not sure I get the point of this. Surely you’d use the two connectors for something like two-pipe ECP, or at any rate providing one line for control air (and makeup air for ‘legacy’ operation) and one for high-pressure high-volume air … just the opposite of a ‘bleeder’ line.
If you tie into a cut of ordinary cars with brakes applied, you need to pump UP the air pressure to get the brakes to release quickly. Likewise, if you have a cut with no pressure in the reservoirs and hence no brakes, you need to recharge the reservoirs quickly. I see little but trouble in providing an extra air circuit that only causes applied brakes to discharge quickly – what happens when this valve sticks open, or debris partially blocks its seating?
Perhaps Ed Blysard, or another of our flat-switching mavens, can comment on how useful a quick-release-without-recharge feature might actually be. But if I were going to implement such a thing I think I’d do it with a solenoid valve and electrical contacts, not a whole separate air circuit.
Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. Someone, somewhere would do the wrong thing and another train would roll away destroying another village or town.
Just to be clear, this has nothing to do with ECP brakes or combining them with conventional air brakes. All of this thinking pre-dated ECP under consideration today.
The point was to add a second air line running through the train solely for the purpose of operating small pneumatic cylinders that would operate the bleeder valve on each car. So each automatic air coupling would have a port for the brake pipe, and another port for the bleeder line.
I think we need a definition of slack. There are two kinds.
One is “free slack” that is the free motion due to slopily fitting or worn coupler and draft gear parts. An example is the slop you see between coupler knuckles. This is generally a very small part of the overall slack in a train.
The other is slack from the draft gear - which attaches the coupler shank to the car structure. In the old days, it was a big spring. Now, it is rubber pads laminated to steel sheets. This slack is the problematic kind that you have to control when handling a train.
A coupler with “no slack”, like an AAR type H “tight lock”, is still connected to the car with draft gear that provide plenty of slack.
Then, there is end of car cushioning…let’s not go there!
I know what you mean. The bleeder line would need to be incapable of being accidentally pressurized when running a train. Air could leak from a brake pipe port of the air coupler. If the coupling blocks happened to be encased in ice, the leakage might find its way into the bleeder port connection and pressurize the bleeder line. Also, someone could simply cut in the bleeder line and pressurize it. It seems like the remedy would be to make certain that the bleeder line has to be open to atmosphere when not in use. Maybe when the brake pipe is charged, there could be a feature that blocks the bleeder valves.
I don’t have an engineering degree, but it appears to me that this proposal is becoming overly complex, which translates to higher maintenance costs and untimely failures.
Personally I would leave the “bleeder line” off the concept. The utility is fairly small.
As far as how it works go, you aren’t considering the “big picture” of how a train sets out a cut of cars in your operation. How do you not have the brake pipe charged and still have the engine coupled to the cut so it can charge the bleed line? The only ways I can see is to have the engineer place the train in emergency or have somebody walk to the rear of the cut to open the angle cock.
The bleed line won’t be of much advantage in a larger yard. You will still have to walk the cut/train with or without the bleed line.
There would be some added utility and some added cost. I don’t know whether the cost would be worth it. But without the automatic air coupling, the bleed line concept would be out of the question. You know how it is when inventing something. Inventors always want to add as many features as possible to sell the basic invention. So inventions always want to become a “Swiss Army Knife.”
I am not sure I understand your point about the bleed line and setting out cars. For that operation, the bleed line is unnecessary because no bleeding is involved.
The bleed line would be used for pulling cuts of cars delivered to yards to be switched out.
However, in the biggest picture, I do not expect the railroad industry to ever adopt an automatic air coupler unless it happens to be mandated for some reason.
While the standardization enabling interchangeability in railroading creates efficiency, it closes of
This is why I said you should do a little more homework to understand how things work so you can design something that fits the need.
Where do you think the cars that you are switching came from? They came from a train and they had air on them. They will have to be bled off to be switched. A train drives up to a yard. It has air on the train. The train sets out cars to be switched. It could be 1 car, it could be 20 cars, it could be 100 cars, it could be the entire train. All of the cars set out need to be bled off to be switched.
If its a major yard with carmen then the bleed line won’t have very much savings in time, since the carmen will still have to walk the train doing the inbound inspection.