Back in the late sixties or possibly the early seventies the CN ran cars on the rear of the Super Continental between Toronto and Edmonton that one could travel with there auto. The problem with the experiment was you had to serender your car to CN the day before your trip and pick it up the day after arrival. They used the same double deck enclosed auto carriers that were used on the original Auto-Train as they were purchased from CN anyway. It was my understanding that only a single auto carrier was carried on the rear of the Super Continental and that it was booked solid even with the timeline involving the car. I don’t know why CN limited the service to just a single car per train as from what I have been able to learn they could have filled two or three or even more on many days. I do not remember what the charge was for a car but that was when they were promoting Red-White-Bllue fares for passengers. I know of another attempt that was made for passengers to take a train from Toronto to Florida changing trains in Chicago and for passengers wanting to take there car to Florida there was a car carrier that would load your car in Toronto and and deliver it to you in Florida in time for your trains arrival. This was before Amtrak and the US and Canadian customs did not look kindly on this operation for whatever reason. To bad it might have been successful. A Rail-Truck operation that held much promise in the beginning.
What about something like the drive-on drive-off Chunnel trains? Is there a potential market somewhere in the US or Canada?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chargement_voiture_Eurotunnel.jpg
In the movie “The Italian Job” they load a number of cars in just seconds. Pie in the sky Hollywood treatment but if there is a will and it is profitable, there would be a way. Even one station in every state, the driving time would be more acceptable than driving hundreds, thousands of miles to get to a destination. Restrictions like 14 day advanced reservation or next day or two delivery to your destination city where the auto transport freight car would be moved by freight train consist and to a nearby siding. Has anyone like AAA or travel agents asked the question, done a survey, about taking your car with you on vacation?
You can probably pull such loading and unloading on Lionel Lines and Basement HO RR…but reality of geography and technicalities and practicalities of time make the idea unreliable and unusable at this time.
Those of us who are active in model railroading know 1) Lionel does not make HO scale, and 2) there is a “prototype” for everything – see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurotunnel_Shuttle
You miss my point…and I do know Lionel no longer makes HO. And anything can happen and be on some railroad at some time. Yes.
The only reason to mention “Lionel” in the context of a discussion of real-world transportation policy is to be demeaning or belittling of what someone is proposing.
Once derided as “toy” or “child’s” trains by serious scale model train enthusiasts, Lionel and other brands of large scale, toy, or “hi-rail” model trains are enjoying a resurgence, among collectors of the older trains as well as hobbyists operating for recreation the current Lionel and other large scale offerings.
Someone proposes a drive-on drive-off railway auto ferry as a service, someone else responds to that proposal with ridicule, I point to the Chunnel Shuttle doing the just the thing being proposed (along with side loading to avoid expensive switching moves), and I am missing a point?
And while we are on a model-railroading-as-not-real-railroading metaphor, did I mention that the Chunnel Shuttle turns its trains with a reversing loop?
No. I am of course wrong…sorry. Chunnel trumps my arrogance.
Every winter Detroit and some of the other automobile manufacturers have new cars transported to Arizona to the test tracks manitained in that state. The special double deck auto carriers have a special loading elevator on these trailers for lifting the cars to what ever level they are going to be tied down on. I don’t know about now but in past years when there was additional space on the transport trucks you could transport a car to Phoenix pretty cheap in the winter time when the next years new cars were being transported there for testing. I don’t know if it can still be done but many snowbirds sure liked the idea of flying to Arizona and there car would arrive in a few days. In those pre Amtrak days you could even take the train from Detroit to Phoenix changing trains in Chicago and your car would arrive a day or two after your arrival in Phoenix.
Al - in - Stockton
I was trying to figure out operational aspects of running an Auto Train by looking at what happens in Europe. The Netherlands and Czech Republic only go city to city. France and Germany do 2 - 4 cities. France is different from the rest of Europe by having the cars go separate from the people, who make their way to the destination and pick up their car the next day. Finland services 4 and 5 cities, and Austria tops the list with 6 cities. I am not certain that Austria uses just one train, but all cities lie in a line. From east to west Austria’s cities are Vienna, Graz,Villach, Lienz, Innsbruck, and Feldkirch next to the Swiss border. Cars are transported between Vienna and all cities except for Graz, and between Graz and Feldkirch, and Villach and Feldkirch. How does Europe do 4, 5, and maybe 6 city car transportation? From what I’ve seen, Europe uses open sided, two level, end loaded auto carriers which are driven onto by the car owner. //Side loading auto carriers would make multicity car delivery less complicated, and the Chunnel Shuttle is a simple and reliable design. I haven’t found technical specifications, but it looks to be about 20 ft wide, whereas we would probably be restricted to 10 ft internally. We could use only the lower level for some intermediate stops. The more complicated Morrill swivelling pad could also be used in some situations. Europe has managed to operate 4, 5, or maybe 6 cities, but perhaps at the expense of time.
Europeans railroads certainly show what can be done by railroads to move private vehicles.
Auto Train had been operating successfully(and profitably) between Lorton, Va and Sanford,Fl for quite a number of years when they went into the Midwest(Louisville, Ky to Sanford, Fl) route. It was this operation on L&N that sank Auto Train.(several costly derailments, late running trains and unreliable schedules).
The poor condition of L&N was what sank the operation. Amtrak has not ventured back into this because they have never had the money. I would think today it might work today as the railroads are in much better condition.
Rgds IGN
That’s true for certain operations but I note that they tend to be exclusive to areas where there are poor or non-existant highway,bridge or road tunnel options i,e throught the Chunnel (the trains compete with ferries and not roads) and over/under the Alps…
I am not aware of a significant network of intercity “autotrain” type service in Europe…
I can’t think of any place in the USA except, perhaps, Alaska where there are poor highway options.
Europe has an extensive network of intercity “auto train” type of service, but some has been curtailed in recent years. Seat61.com/Motorail website has a map and info for 12 auto trains that the British can use to go southward. France has 20 auto terminals, but I could only find info on about 13 on the SNCF website, which has a complicated seasonal schedule from daily to once a week. Germany has 16 auto terminals, but the Autozug website lists only seven active and six foreign destinations in Italy, Austria, France, and Switzerland. Berlin and Hamburg go daily to Munich, Hildesheim to Munich twice a week, and others weekly or biweekly, and seasonal. Italy has 18 auto terminals, but Trenitalia cancelled all service in 2012. The British had about 18 auto terminals, but the last auto train ran in 2005. The Netherlands Autoslaaptrein goes weekly from 's Hertogenbosch to Alessandria and Livorno, Italy and in the summer to Kopen, Slovenia. It used to go also to Avignon and Frejus until the French got protective and charged €350 per person. The Czech Republic has two daily trains from Prague to Kosice, Slovakia, and one from Prague to Poprad, Slovakia to enjoy mountain activities. It used to also go to Split, Croatia. Croatia has an auto train from Zagreb to Split. Austria has 6 auto terminals as explained in a previous posting, and also went from Vienna to Hamburg and to Livorno, Italy. From Villach, Austria an auto train goes to the Turkish border. Poland had 8 auto terminals, but stopped service in 2004. Finland has 7 auto terminals and two daily trains northward from Helsinki and from Turku. Belgium and Spain also had auto trains, but I have no further info. None of the above are car Shuttle trains to go over mountains or water.
???350 in the previous post is 350 euro.