While searching for some unrelated subject material the other evening I stumbled into the following website: http://www.bedt.info/
The amount of information and photographs was at first overwhelming, and then intimidating.
It is probably a major resource for the railroads in and around the harbor and boroughs of ‘The City’. You can’t just ‘surf through it’. The website really is an in-depth study of NYC railroads, particularly the non-major lines (ie: PRR,NYC, LIRR, B&O, well you get my drift. [wow])
So with permission of the sites owner, I have posted the link.
Please enjoy and respect his request, and don’t for get to sign his guest book.
Sure would be interested in what some others think about it.
Sam, the great Brooklyn Eastern District Terminal website also has a page about the B&O freight station on W. 26th St., which stands across the street from LV’s Starrett Lehigh Building. I walked there from Penn Station once and found both buildings beautiful. – Mike
I stumbled across the site a few weeks back (before this thread was created), and read it completely. It is very interesting and fairly complete concerning basically all NY Harbor Railroad float yards and pier stations (no float bridge or land-based yard, but the carfloats were moored to the pier and unloaded from there). I realize there were a number of float yards and bridges around the harbor, but didn’t realize there were quite so many (there is a page listing them, broken down by Boro/County).
I believe the original site focused on the BEDT of North Brooklyn (since many of the other not directly related links, such as float bridge types or car-float design, stem directly off of that page), and the other harbor sites (yards & piers) pages were added later as info came in. I hadn’t realize BEDT was quite so large at it’s peak. Regardless, I used Bing Aerial to view the sites as they currently are now (well, within a few years or so), and found some of the sunken float bridges (such as at the Brooklyn Navy Yard and the former BEDT Pidgeon yard in LIC) and float bridge landings (like the MTA North Manhattan 207th maintainance yard). The real estate boom of the 1990s & '00s has really erased a lot of the vestiages of the yards & piers (e.g. The Javits convention center built upon what was once a number of major float yards in between 32 and 39th Street)
Looking back at the list of yards & piers, I don’t recall any real mention of the main LIRR float yard in
Hunters Point/LIC (maybe a mention in passing when discussing the Pidgeon yard), nor much beyond a brief mention of the NYNH&H/PRR yards at 65th street in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn (although the newish float bridges built by NYC in the late 1980s are listed as Modern Float bridges). Other yards and stations’ history and operations are detailed, were these (and I just missed the content).
Not that I was unaware of them, but I restricted my research and coverage to offline terminals only. And, by no means am I “anti”- NYC or NYNH&H!
As:
NYNH&H Oak Point (in the Bronx and technically on the mainland)
NYNH&H / LIRR 65th Street “Bay Ridge” (connected via Fresh Pond / Hell Gate)
NYC 69th Street (connected via Spuyten Duyvil, and Broadway bridges)
NYC West Side & High Line (connected via Spuyten Duyvil, and Broadway bridges)
were all connected and accessed via connections to the main land, and therefore “online” I had to draw a line. Maybe, just maybe someday, I’ll add them, but as there are already several books and websites on the above locations, I felt I would be duplicating previous work.
With what I did cover, there was either an absence of, or limited coverage preexisting.
So, with that explained, I do appreciate all the feedback you guys give, and keep on checking the website: Just added a new page on Diesel Powered Railroad Operated Tugboats of the East Coast.
BEDT wrote the following post on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
[snipped] “…With what I did cover, there was either an absence of, or limited coverage preexisting. So, with that explained, I do appreciate all the feedback you guys give, and keep on checking the website: Just added a new page on Diesel Powered Railroad Operated Tugboats of the East Coast…”
By the way everyone, if you want to see a surviving BEDT steam locomotive in operation visit the Strasburg Railroad in Strasburg PA. the next time they have “A Day Out With Thomas” (The Tank Engine). “Thomas” is a cleverly rebuilt 0-6-0 veteran of the BEDT!
To BEDT: Didn’t (doesn’t) railfan author and photographer Ron Zeil own a former BEDT locomotive? The last I heard it was located in a rail museum on Long Island, but not in running condition. It has been a few years since I saw any mention of it, though.
#16 is out on LI at RRMLI get a very nice (if I do say so myself) cosmetic resto.
Ron Ziel confirmed he purchased #12 in June 1963 for the sum of $900. He told me an intersting story regarding his purchase:
Ron Ziel purchased #12 when BEDT announced the cessation of steam operations. As Mr. Ziel was a well recognized feature around BEDT in the 1960’s, he was given first choice when the steam locomotives were put up for sale. #12 is Mr. Ziel’s favorite, and henceforth purchased it. The purchase price was $900. Mr. Ziel related this amusing recollection to the author.
When Mr. Ziel was offered #12, he went to his bank to secure a loan. He was first told he would need a car loan and when filling out the loan application, he listed the data of #12 as if it were a car:
wheels: 6,
year: 1919,
weight: 128,000 lbs.
vin / serial #: 6368
etc. etc.
Eventually when the bank officer learned that the loan was to purchase a locomotive, the application was changed to a personal loan.
His was the first BEDT steamer purchased and was done so for his & George Fosters Sag Harbor & Scuttle Hole RR (tourist) out on LI, but it never got off the ground… (George Foster purchased #16, but it never got moved, and was abandoned in place until 1993)
It also must me noted: it is popularly, (but erroneously) believed to have been a Brooklyn Navy Yard locomotive prior to bedt ownership. While it did operate in Brooklyn, NY; but at the Fleet Supply Base at 38th - 3
Moving away a bit from the BEDT steam loco, I admit I like the “Industrial & Offline Terminal’s” discussion on a topic I had never heard about before, the South Brooklyn Terminal/Marginal railroad. I wonder if it had been built, what effect it would have had on (really West) Brooklyn Railroading over the decades, how long it would have prolonged rail freight service along the Brooklyn waterfront, and would it’s ultimate fate have been that of the West Side High Line in Manhattan (shut down in effect around 1980, less than 50 years after it was opened). I think all float bridge operations would have consolidated into only a few points (maybe BEDT and Bush Terminal - maybe out of PRR/NH 65th Bay Ridge yard) by 1930, and the deindustrialization of Brooklyn possibly delayed for a few decades at most.
BTW, There was a similar concept for the West Site of Manhattan, with several proposals involving Public financing of a Marginal railroad, either elevated or underground, along the Hudson (North River then) waterfront, with a number of public terminals (report of NY Marginal Railroad) - quite intensive, and linked New Jersey trunk-lines via 2 railfreight tunnels which formed a loop system (since it would have connected to mainline trunk lines, it’s ineligible for the I&OT site). Of course, this railroad was never built, but the West Side high-line was, and that didn’t fare too well in the end, happy park-strolling hipsters not withstanding
Also, BEDT - not sure if you can use this (probably not) as an aside in your Inland Freight terminals section, but the Port Authority of NYNJ not only built a second Freight Terminal in Manhattan (which you mention on your site), but also a third Motor Terminal in Newark (still standing today).
Oddly enough, the
Spill it! Where was the second Inland Freight Station? What info you have?
I heard of the Newark Terminal but being located in NJ , I don’t cover it (yet).
Re: Brooklyn Marginal: It probably would have hastened the end of Bush Terminal, DLW 25th Street, New York Dock (Atlantic, Baltic, Fulton), Jay Street Terminal and BEDT . It was suggested that a Class 1 be appointed to operate it, which basically the way I see it, the independents would have been absorbed or consolidated into one entity.
I don’t think the Brooklyn Marginal would have been a NY Central or PRR operation, but more of a NY City Belt Line or Municipal Railway.
But alas, for better or for worse, it wasn’t built. Ironically, if you look at the Fleet Supply Base page (military RR site) and see where the Brooklyn Marginal would have s curved onto First Avenue at 39th Street; this is pretty darn close to the routing New York New Jersey Rails new trackage from 43rd Street and 1st Ave to the South Brooklyn Marine Terminal gate at 39th Street and 1st.
Spill it?!? You already covered it on you I&OTR Site - the place is in Manhattan by the Holland Tunnel, which was mentioned on your Inland Freight Terminal page. More specifically, on Spring St. between Washington and Greenwhich, right across from the former NYC High Line St. John’s Park Terminal
You must have seen this very, very short clip on the NY Union Motor Terminal, right?
And this ad for Jenkins Valves featuring the terminal (it’s on eBay, so may be gone by 1 June).
It’s also mentioned with it’s initial official name “Inland Terminal No. 2” in that multi-page PANYNJ court case I linked to before (unfortunately the link opens on Page 3, whereas the relevant info is on page two:
. However, by 1944 the terminal was already known as the Union Motor Terminal, and was designed for LTL (Long Distance to Local Truck transloa
This explanation of “LTL” may be entirely correct in this specific context, at that place and that long ago; however, note that more often it stands for “Less-than-Truckload Lot” - i.e., a shipment that is smaller than an entire truckload at one time.
BEDT - I believe I did not see on the portion of your website pertaining to military railroads the US Navy railroad from Naval Weapons Station Earle, NJ to Sandy Hook Bay in Lower New York Harbor, more properly Colts Neck to the Leonardo Pier complex. Did I miss it, or will you be adding it soon ? Here are some references, for everyone’s convenience:
Actuallly I did mean LTL as in “Less than Truck Load (or Lot)” - consider a railroad freight station where boxcars brought in aggregated loads from other cities consisting of many consignee’s loads - these shipments were broken up and stored in the station for eventual pick up by the consignees via their trucks or delivered by railroad company trucks - what we think of as traditional railroad LCL (Less than Carload (lot)) service, say prior to the mid-1960s .
OK, same concept at the Union Truck Terminals for LTL - in this case long distance trailers replace the boxcars hauling the aggregated consignee’s loads to the freight terminal. I also agree that the meaning of LTL may have changed over time - certainly by the 1980s when I worked in a warehouse, full-size tractor trailers (40ft and larger) would back up to the loading docks, drop off a handful of skids of material, and then went on to their next local delivery - that’s the concept of LTL I believe your talking about, Paul (Not sure if we ever got a delivery from G.O.D.)
I see that nowadays that LCL stands for “Less Than Containerload” - well, since the railroads abandoned traditional LCL more or less by the 1970s, I guess that was inevitable.
How peculiar, you are like the third or fourth person in as many months that requested Earle. Bayonne, also, etc. Unfortunately these are not on the website (yet).
Sandy Hook / Ft Hancock is on the website, and currently is the only New Jersey Military RR as the base operated in conjuction with Ft’s Hamilton, Wadsworth and Tilden for coastal artillery coverage of New York Harbor entrance.
But, if the public demands Earle, Bayonne (and what the hey, I might throw in Lakehurst too for s&g; as I’m a lighter than air fan also), then by golly, I’ll have to start accumulating some images!