When laying ballast, do you first soak the roadbed with a 50/50 mix white glue and water (plus a couple drops of dish detergent), then lay ballast? Or do you spread ballast then, with an eyedropper, soak it with glue?
JaRRell
Ballast first, use a soft bru***o make it all neat, and then add the glue/water. I’ve found rubbing alcohol in the mix works WAY better than detergent, but we have pretty hard water. Actually, the best results I got on a test section I did came from mixing 70% Isopropyl alcohol directly with the glue. Don’t be afraid to experiment to find the best mix for you.
–Randy
Jarrell,
You are going to get 1000 slightly different answers to your question as people such as myself will expand your topic to the more general question of how to ballast. In my experience most people are not careful enough in this process. Good ballasting will make the railroad look great, mediocre ballasting will make it look…
Some tips based on my experience:
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Get the ballast perfect before you even think of glue. Most people use too much ballast and end up scraping it off of everything later. Get your profile looking the way you want it. No rocks on the ties, no rocks stuck to the track. Contrary to popular belief, this process will take quite awhile. You might also experiment with different sizes, for HO I mix the WS fine and medium ballast to get a more scale looking appearance. How the ballast looks after you are done with this step, is how it will look when you are done glueing it down… In others words, make it as good as you can, it won’t improve in looks when you glue it.
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Be careful around switches with the ballast and especially the glue. I paint the roadbed the color of the ballast in areas under the switches so if I don’t get perfect coverage, it won’t show. If you get too much glue here you will glue the throwbar in place. OOOOuch!!!
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I use wet water (detergent in water) or alcohol as a wetting agent. Spray the agent up in the air and let it FALL on the ballast and roadbed like light fog or very gentle rain… You don’t want to disturb the beautiful job you did laying it out. If you spray direcly at it, the ballast will go flying everywhere. When things are wet, I go back in with the glue and soak the heck out of things (with the exception of turnouts). It will take days for the glue to dry. This is normal.
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Practice on a test section to get the hang of it before you go for the stuff that counts.
Hope this helps.
I agree with Guy (Trainnut1250) with the exception of #3…
Instead of spraying, I use an eye dropper (the large volume kind you get in kids’ medicine) to dribble “straight” 50% isopropyl alcohol as the wetting agent before adding the thinned glue. I find I get quite a bit of overspray trying to mist everything.
Andrew
Guys, what I’m working on right now is a little practice, 2 foot ‘scene’. By practice I mean I took a 2 foot piece of 2 inch foam and glued down a piece of cork roadbed, then I dug ditches, painted it a light tan color and then added some grasses and bushes, painted the rails a rust color… etc. First time doing it so it’s all a learning process for me. Now I’m ready to practice with the ballast. So, since its not a big area I think I’ll do the eyedropper method of placing the ‘wetting agent’.
1- get the ballast in place, brush it off ties and rails, get the shape of it right
2- apply the wetting agent, either ‘wet’ water or alcohol
3- apply the thinned glue with an eyedropper
JaRRell
What do you mean when you say “when things get wet” You lost me there.
BB
I’m a little different in applying the wetting agent, i DON’T. Instead, I dilute the glue greatly with water al alcohol, with a couple of drops of glue. That way, whatever’s wet, is glued. If it’s dry, it’s not glued. Use an eye dropper.
25% glue
50% water
25% alcohol
a few drops detergent
Mix well, apply liberally, don’t drink.
Mark in Utah
Jarrell, when laying your ballast, try a paint brush like the kind you would use for water colours at school. Sprinkle on the ballast with a spoon or something, and let if fall as it wants. The ‘shoulders’ of the ballast, at the ends of the ties, should be somewhat naturally formed for the height of your road. If you want, use the bru***o gently sweep some of the stuff at the foot of the ballast back into line or closer to the track. But, the biggest job, by far, is getting what falls betwen the rails out of the way of the wheel flanges, hose connectors, and turnout points (I stayed away from the area point-side of the frogs…period). So, you will spend lots of time with the bristles sweeping longitudinally (along the axis) of your tracks to clear the ties, inside and out of your rails.
When you are happy with a section, do the wetting technicque that seems intuitively correct to you. I used detergent and spraying, and hated to wipe the rails afterwards because of the high risk of the cloth or finger gouging the wet ballast…it happened. I would definitely try the dropper next time. As for detergent over alcohol, …whatever. Try both…they’re cheap.
If you are handlaying you can ballast at the same time you glue down the ties. Spread the glue, put down the ties and sprinkle ballast over it. Guarantees you won’t have ballast in the flangeways.
Dave H.
Bruce,
The idea of the wetting agent is to break the surface tension of the glue so that it won’t bead up on the ballast when applied. So when things look wetted down, I apply glue. If it beads, back to the wetting agent.
When i do my ballest I’ve tried lots methods and today of all days i found a way that works for me it may not work for you but I lay the ballest 50/50 water glue mix with a paint brush and barely tap it on the ballest untill all is soaked. it seems to work best for me. Like I said before it may not work for you.
Well, I got the little two foot test section done and I can tell you now… ballasting is NOT going to be my most favorite part of model railroading… It went ok, I guess… for a rank amature I mean. When it dries some I’ll take a photo of it and post it.
I have another question though. What is the best method to pick up those stray pieces of ballast that somehow landed where they weren’t supposed to after it dries?
I think it looks pretty good for someone that doesn’t know what he’s doing. It’s supposed to be a not used very much spur and thats what it reminds me of… a little…[^]
JaRRell
P.S. How long did it take you just to ballast your empire?
Also, not every single piece got glued down. Is that ok?
Jarrell,
I take a sharp no.11 blade and flick off the unwanted ballast. Then I vacuum the heck out of it. The pieces that look like they didn’t get glue maybe glued down but you cant tell until it is all dry…If not they will be vacuumed up. If the coverage is bad you can always re-apply more ballast. It took me a couple of weeks working late at night pretty steady to do my 16X4 layout.
One not so funny side note. The old layoyut was Marklin three rail. The track has studs in the center for power pick up. The ballast glue effectively insulated everyone of those studs. The track looked great but not a thing would run. It was the biggest mistake I made on the railroad. I had to go back and scrape each stud by hand (probably more than a thousand total). Markiln guys (all two of you) pay attention. Don’t do this!!!
If you are uninterrupted, you can ballast 30 feet in about four hours (it speeds up as you get better).
After you’re sure the ballast is dry, run a car through the area and clear the flange-way. If the car bucks and rises under your hand, you are feeling what your loco will have to go over, too. Run the car back and forth until it is smooth. Then vacuum.
Keep track of your wife’s hairspray. The kind that comes in a pump bottle. When she’s done with it, snag it. It sprays a finer mist than commercial pump bottles. Just make sure you get it good and clean. One trip through the dishwasher should do it. Make sure you do this when she’s NOT at home. Wives take a dim view of anything other than dirty dishes going in there. In a previous life (drag racing), I found that the dishwasher was a good way to clean carburetor parts and valve covers, but a sure way to spend a couple of days arguing. But, that’s a different story.
Here is a method I have used for 35+ years and it has worked for me on every surface,
I use DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin glue available at many home centers. It is a powder, originally formulated for glueing wood surfaces. I mix the powder with my ballast and stir it well. Apply the ballast with whatever procedure you prefer, ballast applicator, spoons, paper troughs. Use small paint brushes 1/2" or smaller to groom the ballast into position. You can use artist’s brushes if you prefer. Make sure to get the ballast into it’s FINAL position between the ties and away from the points of your turnout. Remember, the glue is ALREADY in the ballast, so don’t leave ballast anywhere you don’t want it to be! Vacuum up any out-of-place ballast.
Use a fine mist spray bottle (hair spray pumps work really well, but takes a LOT of pumping!). Fill the bottle with water/detergent (couple of drops) or water/alcohol mix (up to 50/50 mix). Spray a fine mist over the ballast and continue spraying until the ballast is thoroughly soaked. I like to give all the ballast a light, fine misting to keep the ballast from blowing around, then get closer to give it a good soaking. And you’re done!
The amount of glue you use will be determined by your preferences. Experiment with different mix ratios until you find one that works consistently well for you. I use about 15-20% glue by volume (the powder is really fine and dense). I find I also have to re-mix the ballast/glue mixture as I work because the powder is so fine it tends to settle.
The advantages to this method is that you have a LONG working time to groom your ballast and you will be spraying mostly water over the track, eliminating the need for a major track clean-up when you are done.
The disadvantages are the glue is expensive to buy, although I think highly economical to use, the glue is anhydrous (it will absord moisture from the air, possibly hardening when and where you don’t want it to - but we’re talki
All, good advice, what i have found is that i often “paint” straight while glue or yellow wood glue to the roadbed sides. its not hard to keep it away from the tie ends, just hit the slope.
i find this helps keep the ballast from rolling off and i like the slightly steeper slope i get as a result. i find that as i apply ballast on the sides i get enough between the ties (where its still dry!) so i dont even add much more, i just use a brush and work it out to its FINAL position.
This is key, and has been mentioned above, but until you spend a 1/2 hour chipping stray ballast from a 3 foot length of track you dont know the meaning of the word monotonous. These little micro rocks really stick and chipping them off the rails sucks!
Anyway, once i like the looks of things i proceed with wetting and gluing as mentioned by others above soaking between the ties as well as the sides and slopes to really nail it all down for all eternity.
final, note, ever have to give a big dog the oral worm medications?, i save the big syringes (no - no needle attached!), they hold ALOT of diluted glue and still provide as much control as an eyedropper as long as you ease on the plunger. makes this part of the job fly…
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One final trick I use to get the ballast to look more prototypical is after it dries I spray it with a diluted grimy black mixture. I use Polly Scale and alcohol in my air brush and set the spray to cover the tie widths and give it quick spray. You can use less or more to get the look that you want, but start out with a little and work your way up.
Lol… I know it’s not funny, it’s just that it is exactly something I would likely do. So you Marklin users “both of you”, take heed…[:D]
Jarrell
Great tip!
Thanks,
Jarrell