Ok…so i did my research. I read multiple articles and forum posts on ballasting. Watched hours of video on youtube. I saw the 4:1, 3:1, and 2:1 glue to water ratios used. I saw the 1 drop, 2 drops of soap detergent for a wetting agent used. I saw the spray down method, the eye dropper method, and the sprinkle method. I saw alcohol presoak utilized. I was ready for ballasting. Right. I am apparently no ballaster (<----is that a proper pronoun?)
So…here is how I did mine. 50/50 glue to water w/ 2 drops of soap added to the mix. The first batch, I did not alcohol spray the ballast before gluing and had major issues. The second batch I pre-sprayed with alcohol and the glue adhered just fine.
Here are the questions:
What a mess! What do you guys do to contain the stray ballast rocks? Do you tape off?
The alcohol spray attacks my interior latex paint I used for my layout board. Would it be better to somehow pre-soak the ballast in alcohol? Or is there another method of putting the alcohol down?
The ballast stained my freshly painted (but dry) railroad ties. They are not grey-ish. Should I prewash the ballast? Is there a fix for this?
I have successfully made one of my turnouts useless. Not sure if its rocks or glue, but it won’t move. I’m sure I watched something on how to protect these, but it alluded me at the time of the crime. Any help would be helpful…duh…why its called help…sorry…its early in my day here.
I’m not at all discouraged. This is my children’s Christmas Tree oval that I’m making to use for practice in all these little methods. So the fact I’m a ballasting idiot, is fine with me…lol…i’ll get better. But I would like to know if I’m just that big of an idiot, or does everybody see the same issues I am the first time they ballast track.
Great post! Sums up my feelings pretty well. I’m developing my layout a section at a time, and ballasting is the last thing that happens. I’ve become so averse to the mess that I always seem to find one more thing to do first. Progress grinds to a slow crawl. It’s almost like writers block for an author.
I follow Cody Grivno’s methods and have had no trouble. I’ve yet to ballast painted track though. Are you using 91% alcohol by any chance? Should be the 70% stuff.
Yeah it can be messy. I use a brush to move the ballast out of areas that I don’t want it to be. If things get too far out of hand I’ll vacuum it up and start again. The glue and wetting agents do run everywhere. I do mask things that don’t want glue and wetting agent on them.
Try using wet water instead.
This may be the alcohol reacting with the paint and turning it grey. Try a different wetting agent.
4 Yeah turnout throw bars get glued in place. Use an eyedropper and put water on the throw bar to soften the glue. Wait a few minutes and do it again. It should eventually soften the glue to the point that the bar will move.
Use an exacto to clean out stray ballast from the area between the bar and headstock ties as well as where the points and stock rail meet… It may take several applications of water over several days before the bar area dries without freezing the bar again. You can use a blow dryer to dry the glue while moving the bar. Be careful not to put too much force on the points or you will break them off of the bar (don’t ask how I know this).
To avoid glued frozen turnouts I use a blow dryer when making the initial glue application and keep working the throw bar while drying out the glue with the hair dryer. Of course I am very careful not to flood the area with glue or wetting agent.
I second the recommendation to use Cody’s method. I like the extra control and less mess of using the pipette, rather than spraying. You can find a video of it on this site, probably under the Expert Tips.
Wow, I like to ballast and do not seem to have problems. Make sure that you do the sides and center at the same time and then do the water and then do the glue mixture in the center so it will flow to the outside ballast as well.
You can also make a blocker of some kind so the ballast will go only to it and no farther.
I just use a piece of plastic sign to hold the ballast edges in place. Some times I do this after I have used the glue mix. Just push any flows to wards the track.
I’ll double check, but I’m pretty sure it’s the 70%. I’ll also look into Cody Grivno…don’t recall seeing or hearing the name, but I’m no name guru, so perhaps I have.
Also, I’ll be doing some taping next time as well. Thanks for all the input guys…really appreciate it. Makes me feel a bit less “challenged” knowing that what I’m running into isn’t neccesarily abnormal.
one additional question: Wet water…i think someone mentioned…this is just water with a few drops of soap added to it? Or is there something I’m not understanding about that. AND…use the wet water in lieu of alcohol?
I don’t use the alcohol spray as much anymore, I use a squeeze bottle with a tapered tip and just let the alcohol (70%) run into the ballast between the tracks and then dribble the 50/50 white glue. Works great and also, to spread the ballast I use a 3/4" foam brush that I cut down to fit inside the rails. the foam doesn’t let the ballast ‘snap’ or ‘jump’ around like a bristle brush does. I also do the center between the rails first and then come back and to the outsides after the scenery is done up to the roadbed. That way the ballast will cover any scenery close to the roadbed (I use the spray for this area some of the time). I also use old ‘CoffeeMate’ creamer bottles to store and apply the ballast. It works great once you get used to how to shake the ballast out. In fact I store all my scenic materials in these bottles.
I use water to wet the ballast by misting it with a spray bottle. Then I use a fuel bulb for model airplanes to apply the glue. It has a fine tip znd allows about two feet to be glued with one fill up.
I am Glad you brought this up .I am ready to start some ballasting have finished an area with a yard and main with Humpyard throws and have painted ties and rail. my plan is to ballast then a final airbrushing of light weathering on track and ballast. What you have tried and had issues with would have been the approach I was going to try. The responses on this thread are great suggestions and answers that will change my methods a bit.
After I have groomed the local seaside beach sand that I use, I wet it with 70% isopropyl alcohol. I apply that with a clean used wood glue plastic bottle where I cover the neck with masking tape and poke a hole with a needle. As for the glue, for three layouts now I have used a wood glue bottle with the twist-up nib. I mix the wood glue about 1/6 in favour of the water, but I also add two drops of liquid dish detergent. I also add three or four small clean pebbles to the mix for mixing.
The keys are cleanliness, control, patience, but first preparation. Comprising ‘preparation’ are the patient grooming of the ballast, having the right implements nearby (1" long-bristle paint brush, clean rags or paper towels, and the wetting agent and glue mix), and having time set aside in short intervals to do reasonable lengths of track at one go. Once you have dribbled the glue into the ballast, you must immediately take up a cleaning implement and carefully wipe the rail tops unless you prefer to wait untl the groomed ballast has hardened and don’t mind the extra work to clean the rail tops of hard glue.
Well, as you’ve probably discovered by now, there are as many ways to lay ballast as there are ways to skin a cat. Everyone has their favorite, and with time and experimentation, you too will discover yours. I tried a lot of different things before I found something that works fo my satisfaction…
Since you’ve done so much research, it’s hard to know what you’ve seen and what you haven’t. So here’s my nickel’s worth, knowing only what you’ve told us. Out of curiosity, what ballast product are you using? But let’s start at the top.
FWIW, I use matte medium, which has its own issues. Personally, I find a 50/50 mix of glue and water to be overkill. It doesn’t thin the glue enough to make it invisible. Is it possible that THIS is what’s staining your ties? Also, I use two drops of dishwashing liquid (and you know we’re not talking about liquid HAND soap, right?) per CUP of solution. I also dilute my rubbing alcohol 50% (so it’s 50% of 70%, or 35%).
Mess is relative. What you consider messy might not bother me at all. Never-the-less, I use a dixie cup bent into a spout to apply ballast. I use a 1/2" firm bristled brush to GENTLY sweep it down the center of the track. Then I go back and apply to the shoulders, using a 1" foam applicator to shape it. Some people recommend painting the shoulders with glue first, but i’ve never had an issue. The key is to apply a little at a time. You can always add more, but it’s harder to get it up if you put too much down. After I’ve applied the glue, I use a thin palette knife to repair any holes I make by being too aggressive in my “dribbling”. When it’s dry, I vacuum it to get rid of the excess.
A lot of people recommend spray, I’ve never found it useful for anything other than moving materials around (adding to mess, see #1). I use a pipette and dribble it on. It rarely hits anything but the ballast
Well, as you’ve probably discovered by now, there are as many ways to lay ballast as there are ways to skin a cat. Everyone has their favorite, and with time and experimentation, you too will discover yours. I tried a lot of different things before I found something that works fo my satisfaction…
Since you’ve done so much research, it’s hard to know what you’ve seen and what you haven’t. So here’s my nickel’s worth, knowing only what you’ve told us. Out of curiosity, what ballast product are you using? But let’s start at the top.
FWIW, I use matte medium, which has its own issues. Personally, I find a 50/50 mix of glue and water to be overkill. It doesn’t thin the glue enough to make it invisible. Is it possible that THIS is what’s staining your ties? Also, I use two drops of dishwashing liquid (and you know we’re not talking about liquid HAND soap, right?) per CUP of solution. I also dilute my rubbing alcohol 50% (so it’s 50% of 70%, or 35%).
So far, I’m still using the 50% elmers glue solution. It does take a bit for me to mix it completely, but I don’t seem to have issues with this. I’m using dishwashing soap, not dish"washer" or hand soap. I have not diluted the 70% alcohol.
Mess is relative. What you consider messy might not bother me at all. Never-the-less, I use a dixie cup bent into a spout to apply ballast. I use a 1/2" firm bristled brush to GENTLY sweep it down the center of the track. Then I go back and apply to the shoulders, using a 1" foam applicator to shape it. Some people recommend painting the shoulders with glue first, but i’ve never had an issue. The key is to apply a little at a time. You can always add more, but it’s harder to get it up if you put too much down. After I’ve applied the glue, I use a thin palette knife to repair any holes I make by being too aggressive in my “dribbling”. Whe
I dont spray the alchohol. I dribble it on using a white glue bottle. I also use Arizona rock & Mineral ballast, which is real rock as opposed to the WS walnut shells.
I haven’t tried this personaly, it just came to me reading this thread. Has anyone used an airbrush to apply the alcohol water mix? You should be able to turn the pressure down low so as not to disturb the ballast, and the application would be precise, not getting over everything like the spray bottle application.
