Welcome fellow Railfans, Rail Historians, Model Builders, and those of you who are interested in the subject of trains. I am the Barndad (seems like I’m always in a barn, either for trains or horses). If you have been viewing these forums in the past 16 months, you have no doubt noticed the thread “Our Place”, started by Tom Weber (Siberianmo). It was sustained by just a handful of men with diverse train experience and interests. We posted over 7,000 replies since its creation, and more train-related articles, pictures, information, and stories than you can find in any other single location in these forums. Tom ( a 32-year veteran of the U.S. Coast Guard) ran a “tight ship”, and insisted that participants acknowledge each others contributions and basically behave (apply Golden Rule here). I insist upon this as well.
This thread is not intended to replace “Our Place”, but I hope to provide a place where we can discuss and share train-related information in just one thread, much in the same spirit as the “Our Place” concept. I feel it’s important to the Trains.com forums that we do this. I’m hoping that some of the “old regulars” and maybe even Tom himself, will see fit to post here. We sure had a lot of fun, learned a lot, and made some great friends too. I hope this thread will be interesting enough to keep you coming back!
P.S. It was my custom to end most of my posts with a joke (the guys called them groaners) or perhaps funny pictures. Old habits die hard, so ……
Here’s an example of the type of article we share:
The Sand Hog’s Story from June 1937 Model Builder
Photograph courtesy of Port Authority of the from Soibelman
Did you ever wonder how they a tunnel under a river, or how they did in the sand and mud down under the water to reach a bed-rock foundation for the towers and piers of a big railroad bridge? Ask the sand-hog. He’ll tell you. He’s the man who does it.
Let’s say that our new railroad line must cross as especially wide river or bay. The engineers have decided that they must build a suspension bridge. Their plans call for two tall towers from which to suspend the cables, some distance from either shore.
The bridge is going to be a monster, and the monster must have a good foot-hold … and that’s the job for the sand-hog!
First a caisson (a water-tight chamber within which construction work is carried on under the water) is sunk into the soft mud. As the work progresses this caisson will be sun
Good morning one and all, although so far it looks like I’m just talking to myself!
One thing about the the previous article that I don’t think was understood in 1937, was the cause of the air embolism and its subsequent medical treatment. I disagree that the air pocket was caused by high pressure air. It was really caused by a hurried decompression cycle when the men were being brought back to normal (one atmosphere) pressure. These guys were essentially performing what scuba people call a decompression dive, which involves wait-time at various depth while ascending, to give the compressed gasses in the divers bloodstream a chance to diffuse naturally, rather than expanding to form bubbles. This process is a science and has to be regulated carefully. The real treatment for anyone suffering “the bends” should have simply been simulating the “dive” atmosphere in a depcompression chamber to recompress the gasses, then slowly bringing the atmospheric pressure up. There was no need for surgery or any medical staff to be present in the chamber. By the way, 1-800-LEO-FAST is the number you can call to find the closest decompression chamber should you need one.
Now that we’re all set to safely help build underwater pylons for railroad bridges, take a look at the following:
Good afternoon fellow railfans. Perhaps the following article will stimulate some conversation:
Merci Boxcar Arrives at Southern & Locomotive History
Members of the branch of the La Societe Des 40 Hommes and 8 Chevaux, along with members of the 277th Maintenance Company, 78th Troop Command, Georgia National Guard, celebrate the completion of the move of the Georgia Merci Boxcar to the Southern Museum of Civil War & Locomotive History on Saturday, January 7, 2006.
On January 7, 2006, the Southern Museum of Civil War & Locomotive History in , , became the custodian of the Georgia Merci Boxcar, which arrived in on February 11, 1949. The Georgia Merci Boxcar (Merci is French for “thank-you”) is one of 49 boxcars sent to the United States by the people of France in 1949 to express appreciation for the American efforts in sending food and other urgently needed supplies when the French were in dire economic straits after the end of World War II.
Howdy once again Doug…The torch has been passed!!! I will forever miss the good times we had at “Our place” but a relocation to “barndad’s Roundhouse” provides new oppertunities and adventures to continue exploring the relm of classic railroading… For those not aquainted with Sir Barndad, he has the whit, candor and flair for classic railroading and all around great guy… Let me extend a open offer to all who frequent by to sit a spell for some good kinship and conversation. Anyone familar with me knows my passion for the Southern Pacific and Pacific Electric in particular and all others in general , if I tend to display bias, just give me a cyber slap!!! Well, gotta run, duty calls, hope to see some of the old gang and some new ones soon. Just wanted to stop in to give my support to Barndad in his new venture, no doubt others will discover " Barndad’s Roundhouse"!!! Until tomorrow when I shall post a SP releated topic… Dave
Hi Dave! It sure is great to see you here, and I certainly appreciate the kind words as well as the visit! Thanks also for being the first to help me demonstrate what I hope this thread will become.
Notice how Dave has expressed a few specific interests? Now here is what we do with it:
The covered hopper is a car type which was developed in the 1920s, but did not see widespread acceptance and use until the World War II era. By 1965, designs such as this 4460-cubic foot American Car & Foundry car were being built for cargoes ranging from grain to plastic pellets to chemicals. All welded in construction and with trough hatches to permit fast and easy loading, these cars constituted a major advance for shippers. Similar cars dominate the covered hopper fleet today.
This particular car was one of 200 cars in SP’s class H-100-12, a 100-ton (nominal) capacity class built in 1965. Jim Seagrave photo at , August, 1966.
The Budd Company of developed a “shotwelding” process for fabrication of stainless steel passenger cars. By the 1950s, Budd cars came into widespread use. Here is a Southern Pacific example, No. 2989, an 83-ft. lounge car built for the Sunset Limited in 1950, which beca
Interesting articles and good to see Dave as well. As you say in the E-mail we ought to support Classic trains forum for allowing us to have such a great time at Tom’s Our Place. I hope some of the old regulars will call in here.
I am struggling a bit with the new format I have done a description of a trip I took in England if you want I will try to post it with a couple of pics Glad the jokes are stll here. Pete.
Good Evening Doug, Dave, Pete and all others! A nice surprise to find Barndad’s Roundhouse opened! It seems to be a nice place, like the old bar. Since Dave (like me) likes Southern Pacific I will show a picture of an old SP steam engine, Class SP-2 #5021, 4-10-2. It is now resting at the Railway and Locomotive Historical Society Museum in Pomona, CA. Somethng is not working properly. I can see the picture when I preview my post, but it does not show when I post it. I have to figure this out. I’ll be back with more stuff this weekend. Eric
Great to have the two of you on-board. Maybe this thread has a chance of survival after all, with two such great contributors such as yourself. Yeah, I am just learning my way around with the new format here as well. Not that I was that proficient with the old system, to be sure. Someone likes my jokes?Who’da thunk it? I’m sure we’d all love to read about and see your England trip Peter! Don’t know exactly why your picture did not come through for you Eric, but thanks for helping to continue Dave’s SP theme! Here’s your picture (if it works for me):
And now, continuing the SP theme, here’s another little submission from me
In the early 1960s, railroads were seeking locomotives with more horsepower, better adhesion, and good, reliable low-speed performance. The Southern Pacific felt that Electro-Motive and Alco were overly conservative and unresponsive to perceived needs with the locomotives they were marketing. Consequently, the railroad went abroad to locomotive builder Krauss-Maffei of , and ordered three diesel locomotives with hydraulic transmission drives rather than the standard traction motor drive. (To meet K-M’s minimum order requirement to design a U.S.-style locomotive, SP talked to the Denver & Rio Grande Western into taking three nearly identical units). Diesel-hydraulics had been successfully operated in European countries for years.
Here’s another theme-related submission on this fine looking Saturday morning for y’all to read with your morning paper:
Southern Pacific, a National War Agency from BLF&E magazine, Jan. 1943
Ninety-nine-car freight train hauled by five locomotives on horseshoe curve near
The clock was turned back more than 73 years recently at Promontory, Utah, when on September 8, 1942, a little gathering of railroad men and history-minded persons re-created in reverse, the epochal ceremony of May 10, 1869, on which date the last spike was driven connecting the rails of the Central Pacific (now Southern Pacific) and the Union Pacific to give the nation its first trans-continental railroad.
For more then 38 years, or since the Southern Pacific’s 32-mile trestle and fill across was opened (April 1904) the pioneer rail line that twisted around the upper end of the lake has been a branch little used.
Now the government has taken up the track so that about 13,000 gross tons of rail and other mater
Congratulations Barndad, what a pleasure to see some from that “old gang of ours” back on the forums. Dave and Pete, I join you in wishing Barndad’s Roundhouse a long and successful “run.” Already, the topics begin to “flow” for the guest’s choice to join in the dialogue or move on to the next post that may be of interest. Love the wide-open format and diversity this thread offers within the wonderful world of railroading: foreign and domestic; street and “high iron;” electric, steam, diesel; passenger, freight and gasp the human factor that keeps them on the rails. So long as we guests are able to keep ourselve’s “on the rails,” I’m sure the Roundhouse will a place where you will never be “cornered.”[:I] Surely looking forward to more participation from familiar friends.[:)] Happy rails to all and have a great weekend.
Hi Ted … and thanks for the the kind words. I too am glad to see some of the old gang pop in so soon! I hope to see everyone eventually, and especially Tom!
If you are new to this thread, and maybe thinking it’s just supposed to be a hang-out for the guys who used to frequent the “Our Place” thread, this is not true. NuB’s are welcome and are encouraged to introduce themselves and join in the discusions. Our topics are going to change from day to day, so feel free to start-up the next one!
Continuing the SP theme, here’s another article:
Famous on the Southern Pacific with the nickname “Queen Mary,” locomotive No. 6011 was a model E2-A, built in December, 1937, as the lead unit for the second trainset of the streamlined City of San Francisco. AT the time the train was not only jointly operated but was also joint owned by Union Pacific, Southern Pacific and Chicago & North Western, and this locomotive then carried emblems of all three railroads on its nose. It was the first diesel in which Southern Pacific had a financial interest.
In 1948, the ownership of the trainsets and their A-B-B motive power was divided among the owning railroads, and this locomotive came to the SP. The photo evidently dates from near the time of sale, as the engine became No. 6011A for a short time before it became No. 6017 in 1949. In later years, this locomotive was re-engineered by SP at , replacing its original two Winton diesels with two then-standard EMD 567A prime movers, and also received the standard exterior body shell and nose of an E7. That work was completed in February, 1954, and the engine remained as No. 6017 until the end of its life. It was retired in July, 1966.
Morning Barndad, what quality and quanity, I will try to do justice with my responses!! Just have the red X on the photos, so here goes on your latest: True, the Espee was an eary inventator of special service cars, cement service being one, three massive plants existed in Ca in the early days, Monolith, Permernate and Kentucky House all depended on the SP for all levels of transportation, SP also was the largest user of cement in Ca… Purchase of the KM’s was more for shock value, EMD was relunctent to compromise it’s well founded reputation for reliability, a 4000hp competitor came as a shock regardless of country of orgin or foreign technology. The concept that SP would be so bold no doubt caused many a sleepless night over in LaGrange who envisioned loss of sales to a long time customer. From the KM diaster EMD finally produced a model that satisfied Espee’s and every other railroads demands, the Hydro killing (so called when new) SD40 an later 45 series, i’ll add this, though beyond the scope, it does factor in…While EMD basked in the glory of the victor, General Electric was quality exploring the 3000hp+ relm and within few years would force Alco out and openly challenge EMD for dominance. Re, the Queen mary, I have color photos of her in Daylight, to my eye the colors don’t work, could it be that chiseled nose and pilot or the chrome trim? It, however looked good in the Armour Yellow, Just a matter of taste I guess… I have some corrections to my SD7/9 review the was posted at “Our Place” recently… Thought you’d enjoy my recent discoveries: to correct a point on my my previous article, SP did not operated the SD7/9’s until UP ownership, with the exception of two assigned to Roseville, the entire GP9,SD7,SD9 fleet was put into storage in 1995. The Last hurrah occured in mid 1994 when they rated mainline assignments in the Central Valley, often in pure sets, this marked the final use of such locomotives in daily mainline service anywhere by a class one… Pwolf, good to see
Doug great posts on the SP.Very interesting on the Diesel-Hydrulics. The Great Western region of British Railways went with Hydrulics to replace steam in the late 1950s and 60s although mostly successful these too were phased out in the 70s in favor of diesel-electrics as used on the other regions.
Great to see Eric and Ted calling in.
Here is some thing I wrote when the Forum was down I hope it is OK.
A TRIP TO SCOTLAND JUNE 2006.
Part One Rugby to Newcastle.
A trip I did manage to take while in England was a day trip to Stirling, Scotland. It was an early start with leaving the house at 5:00 AM and walking the mile and a half or so to Rugby station. A pleasant walk, just cool enough in the early morning light to need a light coat, at that time of year it gets light about 4 AM.
Arriving at the station a pleasant surprise was that the station buffet was open and plenty of time for a cuppa tea.
In the new timetable which had started earlier that week, a train using an 87 electric loco and coaching stock was timed to leave Rugby for London at 6:20 AM, this was waiting on platform 1. Apart from one train in the evening all services for Virgin are booked for Pendelinos,Virgin’s new 9-Car tilting Electric Units, capable of a higher speed but runnig at 125 MPH at the present, and it was a Pendelino, which arrived on platform 2 with the 6:05 am to London. I did toy with the idea of waiting for the 87 hauled train but decided to go with the 6:05. Come departure time
Wow guys! The quality post meter just pegged the maximum for those two fine posts! Way to go Dave and Pete! Did you show your pix of the SP Queen Mary before Dave? I also thought that just maybe the boys at SP were trying to shake things up at Electromotive by taking their business elsewhere. Must be nice to have so much money that you can spend so much just to get better service! Thanks also for your comments and additions to the other posts.
Really liked the June 2006 Scotland trip post Pete( great pix too )! Couldn’t help but notice that it a part one, so I assume we have more to look forward to! Outstanding stuff, to be sure.
Here’s another small bit of info on the SP theme. I’ve got one more ready for later tonight, and then I have to get my pix in order for tomorrow.
Afternoon once more Barndad… I see we have company this afternoon… Excellent write up on the Mc’s, Might I add, The first two delivered by Baldwin (4000/01) were built with the cab in the traditional location which proved leathal to crews in the miles of snowsheds and tunnels on the Donner Pass crossing. Experiments in operating them in reverse provided the solution, soon orders were rewritten to specify cab in front. After the first order of revised mallets arrived 4000/01 were reassigned to the Sunset Route, which had no tunnels until converted to cab in front configuration by SP forces in the late twenties. The MM2’s were a true odditie, built with the 2-6-6-2 wheel arraignment, they were intended for fast passenger work. it was soon discovered that there were problems with the single axle pilot wheel supporting the weight of the cab and firebox, severe oscillation and vibrations that were severe enough on one occasion to cause a crew to bail from a moving locomotive fearing a pending derailment!. A restriction in operating in operating speed and some additional ballast in that area reduced the effects somewhat, but they weren’t being utilized as SP intended, SP decided to replace the two wheel pilot with a four axle design, problem solved, the final one was cut up in 1946… Most of the M’s sat out the dperession in dead lines at Roseville and Eugene, the vast majority were little changed since delievered and were too slow for mainline duty. With the possibility of war looming in Europe, SP roused them from their slumber, converted those not so done, to simple operation. The conversion program was completed two days before the attack on Pearl Harbor. The final survivor of the class, a MM4 2-8-8-2 was scrapped at Eugene in 1948 after thrity years of service… Barndad…To date all my photos remain in negative or slide format, several years ago almost all my orginal prints were destroyed by fire, foresight caused me to store my neagatives in a second location, thus they survived unscathed
Great job on all the SP information Dave. It’s easy to see that you have spent some time researching the SP, and I thank you for sharing the data you have acquired. Much of what you saw from me today came from the Railway & Locomotive Historical Society, of which I am a member. The rest came from sources I already identified. Speaking of which …here’s more stuff:
Southern Pacific, a National War Agency from BLF&E magazine, Jan. 1943
Scene in a busy Southern Pacific Shop
Cab-in-Front locomotives are an outgrowth of the mallet compound type introduced from France about 1904, with a system of articulating two engines (one high pressure and one low pressure) using one boiler. Southern Pacific had a number of mallets, the first in 1909, but in 19127 rebuilt one with two single-expansion engines. As a result the first AC-4 class, 4-8-8-2’s, were bought the next year and the mallets were gradually converted to single-expansion or dismantled.
Originally the cab-in-front locomotives (Southern Pacific is the only railroad in the country using them) were operated exclusively between and over the Sierras where the cab arrangement gives engine crews better vision
Many thanks Doug and Dave for the kind words on my post. I will get to work on part two.
Great info on the SP in war-time and the cab forwards, Doug and Dave there was nothing like them in the UK.
One small qustion you may be able to help. On the front of the Queen Mary diesel the loco has the train number in the box on the nose, not the loco number. was this only on the SP. I see on the photos of the steam locos, the engine number is on the box at the front. Pete.
Good morning one and all! Sure wish I could answer your question on the number placement on the SP Queen Mary Peter. Does anyone else know? This is the type of question that I’ll bet the guys in the historical society could answer. I’ll field it in the Yahoo forum for the group, and see what comes up!
Sunday, as all the Our Place regulars know, was established as a day off from normal posting because the bar was closed, but pix were encouraged. Two problems arose. There were only a few of us who scraped together enough pictures to consistantly post, so most people were not contributing. The even bigger problem was that too many pictures on these forum pages creates a lot of data that takes a lot of computer memory, and pages loaded dreadfully slow. Some people could not even load certain pages at all, so they couldn’t see the pictures anyway. So, if you’re going to upload pix today, let’s keep the quantity down, and spread evenly through the pages please. Having said that:
Yesterday was “Diesel Days” at the , and I managed to sneak in before the crowds arrived. We only have 2 Southern Pacific Locomotives at the . One is steam and the other diesel.
I can help with the engine/train numbers question. The Harriman lines (UP & SP)operated w/ the train numbers in brackets on either side of the engine stack and, originally, on the front of the caboose cupola. The pics showing engine numbers in the indicators probably have an “X” in front of the engine number indicating an extra (unscheduled) train. In the case of trains running in more than one section the first section would show 1-801, the second 2-801 (can’t beat that logic) and the final section would show just 801. The sections prior to the last would also display green lights or flags on the front of the engine. This lasted well into the 1960s when the practice was dropped due to run-through power not having the capability of the numbers being easily changed. UP trains running on the Santa Fe over Cajon would have to change the numbers at Riverside Jct from train to engine and then back again when they left Santa Fe iron at Dagget. The SP didn’t require Santa Fe to use train numbers between Mojave and Bakersfield however, probably due to the Santa Fe engines not having readily changable numbers. In the case of front end helpers (notably No.51 and 52) both engines would display the train number.
It is now resting at the Railway and Locomotive Historical Society Museum in Pomona, CA. Somethng is not working properly. I can see the picture when I preview my post, but it does not show when I post it. I have to figure this out. I’ll be back with more stuff this weekend. Eric
