I don’t normally post questions on multiple forums, but as you suggest, I will “give the big hitters on this Forum a whack at it”. I got some pretty good answers on the other forum. This forum seems to have more postwar folks on it so here is the question as it appeared on the OGR forum:
I give up. How does the barrel car move the barrels up the ramp? I know that it has an electro-magnet that vibrates the ramp, but why don’t the barrels go down rather then up. My grandson and I have tried vibrating a homemade ramp but everything always travels down rather than up. What is Lionel’s secret to make the barrels defy gravity?
Earl and Grandson, Adam
So let the contest begin. The answers do not have to be acccurate. They just have to fool my grandson.[:)]
The direction of travel is controlled by the coil and the spring steel strips that mount the ramp to the frame of the car. The coil pulls the ramp downward, then in between successive pulls, the springs push the ramp back to its original position, which is towards the unloading end of the car. For the barrel loader and car to work correctly, the barrels must have a bit of tooth. This causes them to move only when the springs push the ramp, which in turn causes the barrels to move toward the unloading end of the car. Sorry if this sounds confusing, but I couldn’t think of a better way to explain it.
OK, I will give it a try. I will talk about the barrel loader rather than the car, which works similarly, because the component parts of the loader are easier to see.
The key, or so it seems to me, lies in breaking down a complex system and dealing with the component parts. Someone on the other forum said that he had tried to build a vibrating platform but the barrels (or whatever he used) just bounced around more-or-less in place, rather like the University of Wisconsin football fans in their traditional “jump around” that you may have seen on TV. I submit that if each of the Badger fans were to lean leftward to the point that he/she was overbalanced, once the jump-around started the entire study body would actually flow 'round and 'round the stadium in an apparent continuous stream. That is, each fan would jump up and come down again a little farther to the left of his starting position. The relevance of this will soon be apparent – I hope!
What needs to be recognized is that putting relatively uniform objects on a LEVEL and UNIFORM vibrating platform will only produce a certain amount of random agitation, with the objects remaining very close to where they started. The “trick” is to devise a way of having them all go in one direction. The side rails on the barrel loader constrain the barrels so that they can only move right or left along the ramp. But why do they always go the same way – say right-to-left? It is necessary for the vibrating mechanism to produce a net force in the proper direction.
The way this is done on the horse/cow cars and corral, as well as the old Tudor Electric Football game that some of you may remember, is that the cows, horses and the tiny football players all had little feet with slightly springy “legs” that were bent in one direction. (Had they been pointed straight down, the devices wouldn’t have worked.) These springy thingys reacted to the vibration su
Thank you for the kind words. I wish my post was shorter, but I tried to include concepts and examples that could be understood by people with varied understandings of physics and engineering. At least it didn’t run to 793 pages!
I have a granddaughter who is almost eight. She loves my trains, but seems to love my workshop equally. I try to explain things to her and to let her “learn by doing” wherever possible.
You can easily demonstrate the process to Adam with a couple of lo-tech props. Take an item that is relatively heavy for its size, such as a fishing weight with a flat bottom, so it won’t roll. Then take a piece of thin but stiff card-stock. Bend one end up a bit to give you a sort of handle that you can pull and push on like a grocery cart. Find a smooth level surface such as a table or Formica counter top.
Place the weight on the card near the “handle” and pull it slowly. The card and the weight will move together toward you smoothly, as expected. Then start again. This time yank the card a little – half an inch or so. It will be clear that while the card moves toward you the weight remains more-or-less in place. Then push the card and the weight slowly away from you. The weight will now advance in the direction away from you, relative to the table top. Repeat this pull/push cycle and the weight will move along. Practice this a little until you can do it smoothly and reliably.
Once Adam understands what is happening (he can and should try it himself) get a splitting wedge or similar item and try again, substituting the wedge for the smooth table. (Make sure the wedge is fastened in place, and maybe put a few marks on it so that the progress of the weight can easily be observed.) Start with the weight near the pointed end of the wedge and do the fast-pull, slow push cycle a few times. The weight will climb up the wedge. I think Adam will accept it, because he has already
Thank you once again for your very thorough post. I will show my grandson your demonstration when he comes over.
I thought the #3562 barrel car and #362 barrel loader were identical, except the car had wheels. They are also designed quite differently. The platform electomagnet is oriented parallel to the ramp and so the horizontal vibration of the ramp is directly due to the electromagnet. The electromagnet of the barrel car is oriented perpendicular to the ramp so the vertical pull of the magnet must be transformed into horizontal movement of the ramp. This is accomplished by the ramp mounting system. Pulling down on the ramp causes the ramp to have a horizontal component which, as Mr. Skinner pointed out so well, causes the barrels to move up the ramp.
The barrel car does not have the rectifier that is used on the platform. I don’t know whether Lionel determined that the rectifier was not needed or the design differences negated the need for the rectifier.
After sleeping on this issue, I realized that the barrel car and barrel platform, although seemingly very similar, operate on completely different principals.
The barrel platform operates very similar to the magician that pulls the tablecloth out from under the dishes as Mr. Skinner described. The inertia of the barrels causes the barrels to remain nearly stationary while the ramp is pulled under the barrels. The slower motion of returning the ramp to the rest position coupled with the friction between the barrel and the ramp causes the barrels to travel up hill. The motion is a result of the electromagnet being oriented parallel to the ramp.
The electromagnet on the barrel car is oriented perpendicular to the ramp. The initial motion of the ramp is vertical, which causes the ramp to drop out from under the barrels, leaving them momentarily suspended in the air. The mounts on the ramp cause the verticle motion to be transformed into lateral motion which translates the ramp under the suspended barrels. When the barrels drop back onto the ramp, they are at a different position on the ramp. The ramp then returns to the rest position and the barrels are now at a higher point on the ramp. Repeated cycles move the barrels up the ramp.
I suppose one could say, as Bill Clinton might, that it depends on what you mean my “principle.” The basic principle of operation of the barrel loader, barrel car, 397 coal loader, baggage handler station, horse/cow corral, and all the “Vibrotor” accessories, etc., is all the same at the level of physics; namely, Newton’s First Law of Motion. This is significant only insofar as some folks seem to believe that the devices defy gravity – a notion that would dismay Newton who was quite a fan of gravity – not to mention apples.
The actual design engineering does vary somewhat from accessory to accessory, but the basic principle remains the same. I stand by my posts. Any effort to try to “pull the rug out from under” my explanation will be resisted with vigor. [:)] In any event, it is clear that you now understand “how it works,” and can explain same to your grandson.