Lots of the posters are saying to check with a contractor or building code. If you pull a building permit, at least in my area, the work with have to pass inspections so a little knowledge ahead of time can save all kinds of grief. I have a contractor coming next week to do my basement. There is already 2 inches of pink “Formular” against the poured wall which was already sealed. He is going to build a stud wall out from that, put a vapor barrier against the studs and then build the finished wall. Interesting thing here is that the interior wiring has to be a certain color - yellow - along with a GFI and 20 amp receptacles. So my advice, get a permit, check the local codes and have it inspected.
As with most government regulations, building codes are chock full of good intentions, but often contradict themselves. The first thing to understand is the purpose of the vapor barrier. It is not to hold back floods, or to allow you to fill up your basement with salt water to have a beach party. It is to catch the humidity that naturally occurs in heated air as that air does it’s best to escape from the house.
The reason you want to catch that humidity is because once it gets into your otherwise un-backed insulation, it can become trapped and build up, rendering the insulation less effective, and potentially leading to mold growth.
The kraft paper backing on fiberglass insulation IS a vapor barrier. Read the label. It’s right there. The vapor barrier does NOT have to go over the studs, because the studs will not soak up the small amounts of humidity the way the soft fluffy itchy stuff will. (Think of it this way… when you make a cup of tea, the water soaks the teabag, but it doesn’t dissolve the spoon.)
You’ll notice that in the home improvement shows they usually use the plastic vapor barrier to cover up UNFACED or blown insulation. Again, the barrier has little to do with holding anything back from going into the wall as it is to protect the insulation material from getting soaked over time.
Obviously water vapor can get into the wood, but when you installed the stud, it probably had about a 5 to 10% moisture content in it to begin with. Wood is porous, and these things happen.
The regulations that require plastic surrounds for outlet boxes are more to prevent drafts from coming through the wall than to affect the usefulness of the vapor barrier.
Personally, I live in a 100+ year old house with blown insulation that was installed probably 40 years ago. In the rooms I’ve renovated, I’ve used kraft faced fiberglass, with no extraordinary measures, like caulking every little joint or sealing up a room l
The moral of the story is,…different applications for different conditions, and the codes specify what those applications must be in order to pass inspection. Note, in the link below, well down the page, that there are two problems for which to use vapour barriers, and the inner basement wall face leakage problem is many times the greater threat than is the threat of molds and rot from inner diffuse sources of moisture. At least, it is the case on prairie gumbo in Manitoba, and it is the case in gravel and sand that gets lots of winter rain here in BC.
In Saskatchewan, where we had a house built for us, and because of the same harsh conditions and high water table around the necessary basements, insulation and vapour barrier installations were both important and highly demanding of meticulous attention to details. Where penetrated and seamed, there had to be sealant applied.
http://www.hydro.mb.ca/your_home/home_insulation_tips.shtml
-Crandell
Beautiful house[tup] Where’s the train room?
Brent
If you look closely at the picture you can see part of the garage to the left. The garage has a 40’ x 22’ second floor that is heated and cooled - that is the train room.
Sheldon
Sheldon, your house looks like it should belong on a cover of a magazine. How long have you lived there?
We have lived here for 15 years. It did not look like this when we bought it, but how it looks now is very close to how it looked when it was built in 1901.
We completely restored it inside and out - not remodeled - restored. We have most of the orginal plaster walls and woodwork on the interior, and while the exterior required lots of work, nothing you see in that picture is vinyl siding. It is all wood and other materials that look and feel like wood to maintain the traditional details of the orginal construction. It took aprox. 3-1/2 years to complete the restoration. I planned and supervised the whole project and did about half the work myself.
The house was featured on an episode of the HGTV show Restore America in 2003 and in 1999 we recieved a Historic Preservation Award from our local Historic Commission.
The Ma & Pa Railroad use to run right behind the house and the local station only a block away is now a model train shop.
Sheldon
Good for you for tackling that project, Sheldon. It must be a source of great pride and satisfaction to have planned and executed so much of it yourself. [:)]
Is it largely unique in the area/town, or are there others needing/getting the same treatment?
-Crandell
Thank you, yes my wife and I are very pleased with what we have acomplished here and it has been great fun both doing the restoration and living in a house like this.
We are in the “village” of Forest Hill, MD, once a stop on the Ma & Pa. There are about 50 other homes of similar age and styles, some carefully restored like ours, other just reasonably “maintained”. Ours is one of the two or three largest and most elaborate, and while not the oldest, it does date in the older half.
Restoring houses is actually a big part of what I do for a living. As a Residential Designer and Restoration Consultant I help others plan and carry out projects similar to ours. After designing and planning these projects, some clients retain me as their project manager and I do some very specialized hands on work such as restoring doors and windows.
While great lengths were taken to maintain the Historic and Architectural details and character, the plumbing, electric, heat, A/C, etc, in the house is all new.
Sheldon
Sheldon:
I would like to say that seeing that house and how you worked it back to shape has made me think a lot more of what could be done with an older home. My parents had done a couple of older homes around Woodstock ON when they were alive and now this!! Love it!![bow][bow]
Audrey is now saying----oh geee—why can’t we------[:)]
Okay, Here is the deal. First let me tell you my background so you know where my advice is coming from. My father and grandfather were drywallers. My uncle is a drywaller. I have done a lot of drywall installation in my time. I have done a lot of drywall installation in the Portland area too. As a matter of fact my uncle lives up there in the Portland area.
My advice: If you already have your exterior walls up in your garage (and I think you do) then you do not need a vapor barrier, there should already be one between your studs and your outer wall paneling. For sure you will desire insulation so go down to the HoPo (Home Depot) and ask for the kind you will need. Hopefully you find that one person that actually knows what he is talking about. The insulation will stay up between the studs enough so that you can apply the drywall. Yes, you can get the kind that has the paper backing but it doesn’t matter. Once your drywall is installed then make sure you apply the needed mud and tape to do the job. Don’t short yourself on this step. One coat is NOT enough. And don’t forget about sanding. Sanding is the best way to make it all look good. Before you know it you’ll be ready to lay track!
Good luck and please feel free to ask me any other qu