Lynn Wescott suggested in his L-girder writings that the only place glue should be used is to join the pieces together that made up the girders themselves. All other joints should be made with screws only to facilitate making changes later and maintain reusability of the lumber.
Having not followed Mr. Wescott’s advice, I’ve made some changes where I have wished I hadn’t glued pieces together. But I have not yet had the opposite experience.
I’m moving up from the lower level of the layout where solid construction is most important to me. OTOH, my upper levels are going to be thinner and more lightweight so the extra strength of the glue would provide more value.
I’m trying to decide if I want to use glue going forward.
I’m sure many other have more experience than me but so far I have almost always used just screws only. I have made some changes or had to redo some benchwork in a few cases so it came in handy to not have glued joints.
The only place I have used any glue at all were some cases such as risers etc. where I used hot glue to hold a piece in place before I drilled the pilot holes and drove the screws home. Mostly I make liberal used of C-clamps to hold pieces together too while building or putting in risers, adjust them to grade and level and then fasten with screws.
I don’t know about maintaining the usability of the lumber, but I agree that if you think changes may occur the use of glue should be avoided. And your past experience seems to support that.
I think I agree with Wescott’s idea. On my next layout, I will be using glue and finishing nails to construct the girders (don’t need screws once glue dries). Every think else will be screwed together to facilitate assembly.
However, it might be interesting to see that if everything was glued together, sort of making the benchwork one solid piece from legs to subroadbed, how that would impact noise.
I think noise is caused by vibration, and my thinking is if you can make everything extremely solid, vibration would be reduced as would noise…but that might not be the way to look at it.
If I remember correctly the L-girders were assembled with screws to hold them together until the glue dried. I think the idea was that the screws could then be removed and reused. Screws must have been expensive then. Or else the better halves only allocated a small amount of screws to the model railroading budget. Eventually it was found that no one removed removed the screws so nails were used instead.
Nails are bad, bad, bad for benchwork for a oot of reasons. Thank goodness for the drywall screw!
Stuff I know is permanent often gets glue, especially if it’s something I can’t overbuild for some reason. Otherwise, no glue. However, if you can get at thing in a position to apply pressure sideways, instead of in the shear plane where the glue is strongest, smack it with a hammer and it will often come loose. However, the nwer more impressive glues (Titebond III, Gorilla, etc)are often so strong this won’t work, so it’s good to use glues that aren’t so tenacious, like good ol’ yellow carpenter’s glue.
If you don’t know where the nails are, you can certainly destroy a saw blade. But once glue dries, there is no need for anything else to hold the wood together.
I’ve used finishing nails to hold two sticks together until the glue dries and it works just fine. Screws can split the wood if not predrilled…just don’t try to saw the sticks if you can’t see or don’t remember where the nails are!
My grandfather was a cabinet maker and carpenter for a mine. He told my father that if done properly, wood glue is all one will ever need to join two pieces of wood together along a length. You squeeze out a generous amount in a sinuous path along both surfaces, not just the one to be joined. You place those surfaces against one another, and then you slide them back and forth a couple of times, moving about an inch in each direction. You clamp, clean up seepage carefully, and set the whole aside overnight, but for at least eight hours if the ambient humidity is moderate to light, longer if it’s above 60%.
The sliding is important, but so is the clamping. Screws do the same as clamping. When I built my L-girders, I used both glue and screws and left the screws inplace. I was up on my sections of my yard on my second layout a lot while laying yard tracks. It was rock solid.
I switched from drywall screws to the Spax screws. The first few rows of threads by the point have teeth so they cut their way into the wood. They actually make sawdust and leave a hole behind when you remove them.
As I recall, the only place the nails were used was to hold the L-girder pieces together. If folks are doing modifications that require cutting the L-girder, then other structural problems may occur.
Spax screws, just like drywall screws, perhaps in combination for specific needs, look good as alternatives to classic wood screws.
My layout legs have always been two 1"x4" pieces screwed together in an L-shape – Then, screws applied to every inside/outside corner, with at least 3 screws per side (6 per upper leg/benchwork corner) – Plus, screws used elsewhere for elevation benchwork.
CR&T benchwork is closer to reality, U-shaped with at least 8 inside/outside corners, multi-level, and employs plywood cookie-cutter due to strength needs of traction poles (i.e. no foam base). Screws, and perhaps nuts & bolts, for the upper level will be used. P.S.: Was heavy use of glue mentioned (no)?
If I need life long rigidity, then glue and either nails or screws. Now days with a screw gun, and self drilling screws, they’re quicker than nails (unless you have a nail gun). I wouldn’t glue anything that might need to be changed later. But I also wouldn’t worry as much about hitting one as in the old days. Sawzall.
My bench work was built before dry wall screws were invented. So every screw hole was drilled with a shaped flat head drill bit and the screws turned in with a Yankee Screw driver. I used nails to tack my cork road bed in place and I can’t think or another place where I used nails. My L-girders are screwed and glued together, also.
I have always glued and screwd all timber joints and generaly over engineered my bench work.
I have never worried about altering things just done it if it needs doing.
I don’t worry too much about re use iether because the bits left over after the alteration can always be cut up for something on the layout even if its only to suport a particularly high and heavy mountain peak.
Even the 3.5mm or there abouts left overs can be split into HO scale domestic fire wood if its needed for the layout.
we as a group are pretty good at reusing and re purposing matierial that others would just throw away
L-griders glued, clamped and then used my air powered nailer. Two of use made two 12 foot L-girders in about 15 minutes; because of the nails we had a large section of layout framed up before the glue dried. I also like to use glue on splice plates between roadbed sections, helps stop unwanted vertical curves.