So Bergie initiated a poll call “monster locomotives” and as usual, Canadian content was non-existent - no surprises there if you are Canadian. But I did assign Bergie a homework task which he did not do - the question was - did Canada have articulates? Many Canadians don’t know this so I knew it was a bit of a homework challenge. In fact in the Atlas N forum a member there said Canada had only one of them and I seemed to recall the number was higher than that. So here is an email from a friend of mine who has given me the definitive answer:
“Rick: You’re right. CP had six 0-6-6-0 articulateds built in 1909-1911. They
operated for about 5 or 6 years before being converted into 2-10-0 class
engines. So, I would call them failures rather than experimentals.
Additionally, two small logging articulateds which were acquired second hand
from the U.S. ran on Vancouver Island until the late 40s or early 50s.”
So now Bergie you are one of the few in North America who knows the answer to the Canadian articulate question.
You’re right, I didn’t take you up on the homework assignment. Unfortunately, I have two things working against me doing homework right now. First, my computer is having issues, which is lending to my second problem: a lack of time to do homework. [:)]
Please don’t feel slighted about the lack of a Canadian locomotive in last week’s poll (or any other poll we do). As you may have noticed, we didn’t even come close to listing every locomotive that might be considered a “monster” locomotive. That poll was loosely based on locomotives that are coming - or are rumored to be coming - to the model railroading market sometime in the near future.
Most of all, please keep in mind that our polls are just for fun. If you ever notice something missing from the list of choices, please don’t take it personally (especially if you’re Canadian… we hold nothing against your fine country. In fact, CP runs through the village I live in and I enjoy their broad mix of power). Notice how I also left off the list all Mexican “monster” locomotives? [:D] See what I mean.
And don’t take Canadian jibes to seriously. As a high school student, I went to Robert M. La Follete High in Madison, Wisconsin (and I’ m glad I went there as that name is one of the answers need in the game Trivia Pursuit - another homework assignment Bergie - Why - what is important about that name?). Where this thought is going is that I learnt as a young high school student that Americans knew almost nothing about Canada. In fact, almost all Canadians know that.
We even have had television programs filmed by Canadians going to different areas in the USA proposing all forms of stupidity about Canada and getting Americans to agree. For example, there was the petition started to get Americans to support the legalization of staplers in Canada - and yep, lots of Americans signed - felt we should have the right to bear staplers just like in the good old USA.
I used to get in a huff about the whole thing until one day I asked myself what I knew about Mexico. And I’m afraid my knowledge of Mexico is about equal to an American’s knowledge of Canada. So I decided until I learnt more about Mexico I really had no right to be angry about the whole situation, since Mexico is part of North America as well.
Anyways have a good weekend - and remember - Why is Robert M La Follette important - any good Wisconsinite should know the answer to that one.
Those CP 0-6-6-0’s were not the first articulateds in Canada - There were at least 3 in service on various railroads prior to 1880. The 3’ gauge Glasgow and Cape Breton got an 0-4-4-0 in 1872, and the Toronto & Nippissing and Toronto, Grey & Bruce both got 0-6-6-0’s within a year or so. Not monsters by later standards, but plenty big enough for those days.
Have you ever watched the Tonight Show with Jay Leno? He has a segment called Jay Walking (I think) where he goes out on the streets of L.A. and asks people trivia questions. You’d be surprised how dumb some people are. They don’t even know details about America, let alone Canada! It’s a pretty sad statement for our education system.
One last thing… you make the gross assumption that I’m a “Wisonsinite.” Although I’ve lived here 10 years, I’m still in denial. I grew up in Il
Robert M. “Fighting Bob” La Follette’s long public career in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century—as a U.S. Representative, three-term governor, and U.S. Senator—set precedents for generations of state and federal programs.
La Follette worked on two fronts. He sought institutional changes to place government more directly in the hands of citizens, and he pursued public policies to improve the lot of farmers, workers, children, and women.
Revered by Wisconsinites and friends across the nation for being “the voice of humanism. in politics,” he was eulogized for his philosophies, achievements, and most of all, his impeccable integrity. The Wisconsin legislature commissioned his sculpture to grace Statuary Hall in the nation’s capitol. Two generations later “the dear old rotten Senate,” as La Follette had called it, hung his portrait in the Senate lounge to honor him as one of the five most outstanding senators in the nation’s history.
Apropos of nothing in particular, in 1966, I visited Seattle for the first time. I was asked where I was from and I told the individual Winnipeg, Canada. They stared at me blankly. I then told them it was about 450 miles north of Minneapolis. They continued to stare at me blankly. I added Minnesota. Still no lights went on.
The answer to Robert M La Follette used to be he was the leader of the largest independent party from the Democrats and Republicans. I don’t know if that is still true with Ross Peroe. But that was the answer in Trivia Pursuit and what I was taught at La Follette high.
Bergie I lived in Madison and Chicago so I know what you mean.
Trying to get information on Canadian Articulates all in one place is difficult, so I am not surprised there are more than I thought.
Timbo and others,
Go to this thread on the Atlas N scale forum. I think you will enjoy and some interesting pictures - more on the great Canadian debate on articulated’s:
To “articulate” a bit more about those CPR 0-6-6-0 articulateds; referring to Omer Lavallée’s Canadian Pacific Steam Locomotives ( a virtual encyclopedia of pictures, information and data on CPR steamers from beginning to end of steam), six 0-6-6-0’s were built by CPR’s Angus Shops in Montreal between 1909 and 1911, specifically for helper service in the Canadian Rockies between Field BC and Revelstoke BC. The first five were superheated compounds, the sixth was superheated simple (the first simple articulated to go in service in the world (Alco’s was still in a test phase). Their configuration was unique in that the two sets of cylinders were located back to back between the two sets of drivers. The units were rebuilt into CPR Class R2 5700 series 2-10-0’s in 1917, experience showing high cost of repairs without real advantage from articulation due to the comparatively small size of these locomotives.
We’d have much more homework to do if we include Shays in Canada, of which there were many, as we’d also have to include Heislers and Climaxs (but not Beyer-Garratts-says he expecting a challenge). Omer Lavallée categorized the Shays as 0-4-4-4’s.
Ah well, enough lessons on the Great White North, for now.
[:)]
I’ve done a “Google” search, and a search in the Index of Magazines but was unable to find a photo or plans for the cited 0-4-4-0. Can anyone provide more information on it ?
Bob
NMRA Life 0543
Meanwhile, up here in Canada eh! with a great white Queenie mother with frizzy steel wool for hair STILL on our money in the 21st century alredy, and we want to have Canadian protypical model trains? We had our chance to be a part of the New World in 1776 and said NO when we might have had a real say. With a population of about 30 million today in Canada, maybe, lets be happy for the abundance of models we are offered.
Bob:
You may already have this-http://www.railways.incanada.net/industrials/Nova_Scotia.pdf
It shows Glasgow and Cape Breton Coal having three Fairlie 36" gauge two boiler 0-4-4-0’s built by Avonside:
s/n’s 907-908 1871
s/n’s 909-910 1872
s/n’s 911-912 1871
All three scrapped in 1903.
[:)]
Well…if the Queen’s picture offends you, and you don’t qualify for a debit or credit card…you might want try using paper money, as the Queen’s picture was discontinued on that particular type of Canadian currency quite a while back.
Or just use Canadian Tire money, which features a male Scot…but he’s also white, I’m afraid.[:0]
I see your protest against all things English includes the language itself, with “alredy” and “protypical” as new Republic of Canada thesaurus entries.[:p]
Your knowledge of history is a bit suspect. The only additional colony in British North America that might have become “the fourteenth” US colony, was Nova Scotia, mainly due to its’ own New England population demographics, and to the terrible British abuses inflicted upon the French Acadians.
The rest of what became Canada, 91 years after 1776, was embroiled in a French vs. English struggle throughout most of the 17th and 18th centuries…come to think of it, thoughout every century since then, too.[:I][:I][B)][B)]
Mike
English by birth,
Canadian by choice.[:D][:D]
Gee whiz Mike, if we were to take all offending contributors (of which there are many many) to task for their spelling, grammar and syntax errors, in addition for their questionable understanding of their nation’s history and/or geography, or that of other nations, we would spend too