Just getting back into the hobby. I used to do a fair amount of scale modeling years ago and CA had issues with the vapors leave a white haze as it dried. Not a big issue for most modeling as it was done pre-paint.
I just picked up some accurail kits and I see they are already painted so I would prefer to use CA since liquid cement would not work with pre-painted parts. Is there any more modern CA’s or adhesives that work better without the “vapor” issues.
Any hints or suggestions from folks who have more experience putting these kits together??? Also I would like to upgrades the wheels and couplers. Any suggestions??
Testors liquid cement! It has worked wonderfully on Athearn, Roundhouse, Accurail, C&BT Shops, Walther’s, Red Caboose, Inter-mountain, Branchline, Proto 2000 and the myriad of other plastic kits I have built since the mid 1950s, painted or not! The tube cement ca be messy and I hardly ever use it anymore!
You can use the expensive bottle with the small needle applicator; or, as I have done, take the brush out of the bottle and cut away all but about 10-20 of the bristles from the brush. This makes it a small easily controlled amount you’re applying.
I use CA on wood and generally not on plastics. Not saying you can’t, just that if you get any CA where you don’t want it, it makes a mess very quickly!
Accurail kits pretty much snap together and need very little gluing. Take a hobby knife and scrap the paint away from where you want to bond the joint together, if you have concerns.
I use Tenax 7R and a micro-point applicator. I don’t know how they do it, but it will get under the paint and make a solid bond. I have used it on prepainted kits for years and I use nothing else.
Actually, flyn, liquid adhesive works just fine on painted surfaces. I use Testors (essentially MEK in a bottle) and have never had any problems using it. There are also other good liquid adhesives on the market like Ambroid and Tenax.
The one thing you have to be careful of with liquid adhesives is inadvertently getting it on your fingers then touching your model. (Course, this is true of CA, as well.) Be sure to tighten the lid when you are done, too. It can evaporate at a pretty good rate, if you aren’t careful
And make sure the bottle is on a steady surface and/or can’t be tipped over easily. Early on I knocked over a bottle of liquid adhesive on my work table and, unfortunately “melted” a few parts slightly.
For accurately applying the adhesive in small amounts, I use a 5-0 or 10-0 brush rather than the one that comes with the jar. I only use the bottle brush when applying it over a large area.
And for attaching weights to hoppers and gondolas, I use DAP silicone adhesive. It holds very well and stays flexible.
For wheel sets, I’ve been very happy with the Proto 2000 33" sets. You may want to also invest in a Micro-Mark truck tuner for freeing up any sluggish wheel sets.
And for couplers, I like the the smaller and more prototypical-sized Kadee #58s (or #158s). I buy them in the 20-pair bulk pack, which includes both coupler and copper spring clips.
I just use Tenax 7R with a microbrush, holds fine on the painted parts. I did buy one of those TOuch-n-Flo applicators but haven’t tried itout yet. For gluing the weights in I use CA. I always paint the weights, even for ones that end up hidden, like the gons I just built and the new hopepr kit. The older ones, the weights all go on the outside under the slope sheet and are readily visible. Nothing says ‘shortcut’ like a hopper car with a rusty metal weight showing. My hoppers are all basic black, so I paint the weights with cheap black spray paint from WalMart. For a fraction of the price of a small can of Testors model paint, you get a giant can. ANd since you are painting metal - palstic compatibility isn’t an issue. These cans used to be 99 cents, I think they are maybe $1.19 or $1.29 now - but a can of Testor’s is like $5 for the tiny can.
To address the CA question, I would say you were getting way too much glue on the joins. Do not apply thin CA directly from the bottle! Pour a few drops onto a bottle cap or something similar. Use a wire (about the size of an Athearn wire handrail) to pick up a small drop and apply it to the join. If you really need more than a drop, consider using a medium thickness CA which is better suited to apply from the bottle because you have more control over the quantity coming out of the bottle, but use it sparingly, a lttle goes a long way. The medium CA also give you more time for adjustments. Also get some accelorator to instanly cure the cement. The better CAs are the hobby CAs like ZAP or PaulSmithIndustries (blue and purple metalic lables). These are actually industrial grade and are stronger, more stable and have longer shelf life.
Thanks for the help with my “sticky” situation. I used the ZAP for gap filling years ago so it didn’t matter if there was too much it got sanded out anyway. I’ll be more controlled when applying the fine detail parts.
Sounds like I’ve got several options that should work fine.
Just to add another option, I use Faller Expert. I really like the applicator tip. When I am done, I turn the bottle upright and squeeze lightly on it to clear the applicator (just enough to get some air through and not the adhesive).
Another “vote” for the Faller. The needle applicator and the slightly thicker viscosity allows critical placement even on quite long joints and produces an extremely strong bond. The Testor’s Model Master will work the same and is readily found @ suppliers where Faller may not.
I use MEK or Testor’s liquid when a real solid bond and a larger contact area is needed. I find brushing the liquid on small/ long joints causes much of the product to dry before fitting the parts. Also w/ the Faller, if some excess from the joint ends up on painted parts you have a few seconds to wipe clean w/o marring the factory finish. This won’t happen with the far more aggresive liquids or MEK.
I will only use CA where fitting disimilar materials, usually brass/ metal to plastic and where there is no stess on the bond. CA is a very brittle surface bond. The only craizing I have experienced is on clear plastic. CA ing details where applying inside the shell thefumes will cause windows to fog if not aired or plastic removed firsts.
I use ordinary lacquer thinner for cementing styrene. It’s cheap and also useful for thinning lacquer-based paints, cleaning brushes and airbrushes, and stripping paint from brass or zamac models. I apply it with a brush, any size from 000 to 2", depending on the job.
The biggest reason I use Testors is that it’s a 165 mile round trip to my nearest hobby shop and although I make trips to hobby shops often enough that I could keep a supply of other plastic cements on hand, Testors is readily available at various stores in the small town in which I live! I doubt that any other plastic cement is really any better, it’s more what your familiar with than name brand and Testors is probably cheaper anyway.
Different solvent cements have different formulas. I used to use Testors almost exclusively, but for some applications other varieties work better. Ambroid ProWeld and Tenax 7-R evaporate VERY quickly and allow joints to set up without having to hold them for long. For jobs like assembling warped walls in Walthers Cornerstone structure kits, the faster setting types save a lot of trouble. For an Accurail car, probably not much difference.
I just finished an Accurail kit, 50ft DD boxcar. It’s a nice kit, but some of the parts are insanely small, like the stirrup steps on the car ends. Not much thicker than a human hair.LOL. Yeah I broke a couple, cutting them out of the sprue, and yes I was being extremely careful.
I had an issue with the CA fumes on the side of the car. At first I was horrified. But it really looks like a nice weathering job, with some slightly whiteish grey smudges on the side of the car. Still, I doubt I would buy another Accurail kit. Nothing against Accurail. Just too much really fine detail for me. And they only include two plastic pins to hold the trucks on. Had to provide my own screws.
Well, do not even glance int eh direction of a Branchline Blueprint (now Atlas) or Proto 2000 kit. Thise new fienr details in some of the new Accurail kits are far from delicate compared to other scale size details int he kits I mentioned. You need the proper tools to cut them off the sprue. The Accurail stirrups in the gndola kits, I had no problem with a small blue-handled sprue cutter. The really delicate ones in the Branchline and Proto kits, I use a single-edge razor blade.
Not sure how you got CA fumes all over the outside, I glue my weights in with CA and have never had this cause any discoloration on any exposed part of the model.
You got that right, Randy. You have to be extra careful with those kits.
Actually, I find break lines - especially from Branchline, Intermountain, and Proto 2000 kits - more delicate and more of a challenge to cut free than stirrups. For me - a sharp #11 X-acto blade and a slight sawing action as I press down is pretty much all I need to safely remove parts from sprues without breaking them. And my Mascot magnification head visors are a must!
Indeead, sinc eit’s all cast as one giant part with numerous gates holding it on - said gates being larger than the actual piping. Switchign from a #11 to a razor blade is what got me able to build the Proto tank cars quicker - the razor is narrower than a #11, or at least seems to be, so it puts less pressure on. I did try another trick a few times - rest the blade of the #11 on the soldering iron between cuts. Hot AND sharp - cuts right through the sprues with little or no pressure. Just don’t tought he hot knife to something else, it will also quickly melt a detail part. And if your knife is like mine - all metal - there’s a limit to how long you can rest it on the soldering iron, the handle get HOT. LOL.
In my opinion, the problem with the Proto kits is twofold: the add-on detail parts like grab irons and handrails are cast either in plastic or, even worse, engineering plastic and they are all oversize. The first is a case of “just because you can doesn’t necessarily mean you should” and the second is a direct result of the first. Not only are the details difficult to handle (poor choice of medium), but if you wish to replace them with parts which are closer to scale (wire), you need to first fill the oversize holes. It would, in my opinion, have been best to include wire detail parts, with the bolt detail cast as part of the body shell, and locator dimples where holes needed to be drilled. My second choice would have been for cast-on details - usually easily removeable for us nuts, and perfectly adequate for everyone else, including those who have trouble with the plastic ones furnished.
Re-worked Proto:
Even these Proto1000 Dominion/Fowler cars, available only as r-t-r, had oversize plastic grabs - a lot of them - making the $40.00 asking price not justifiable, at least to my wallet. I managed to pick up a few, bodies only, for $2.00 each, and spent a lot of time re-working them.
Red Caboose and Intermountain are slightly better, in that the details are styrene, and can be easily installed using solvent cement. Once set, they can be trimmed-off, then the plastic re-drilled to accept wire parts:
Not only are the wire details more to scale, they’re a lot
Just was informed by some in the club, (our latest club car is a special lettered 70 ton Accurail kit) that the plastic is quite similar to ABS and styrene cement is not working that well. CA or Tenax 7R should be used. I never had issue w/ other Accurail kits and assy w/ styrene cement. Not sure if it may be that the delicate parts are just done for this kit alone or whether there’s a change with all newer kits.
