I need some input here. I am looking to put together some passeneger trains and need an idea where to look. And Bang For The Buck is my angle. Of course, I want really good cars, but dont have a ton of money… I know I sound like a broken record so I am tryign toi find a middle ground.
There are a bunch out there it in RTR and it seems to be the best deal. All I can find anymore in blue-boxes are off the wall roadnames and only in a few. I am not oppesed to going with a IHC set of passenger cars since they are so cheap, if they can be upgraded fairly easy, such as metal wheels and Kadee type couplers. Also, if you know of a good online source for passenger cars that have good prices,
Here is my list of way I consider most important.
Price.
Operational issues. Metal wheels,Kadde type couplers, handle 20" radius, etc
Outside detail
Inside interior.
Let the opinoins fly. I am sure opinions will vary,
The major limiting criterion you listed is that 20" radius. All is not lost however as there are some Rivarossi 60 footers in the Walthers catalog that are actually good representatives of C&NW heavywieghts. The big drawback w/ them is you have to buy a 4 car set at $140. That comes to about $35 per car which is about what any well done RTR car w/ interior will cost you. Con-Cor has a series of lightwieght 72’ cars in a number of road names @ $17 each. Model Power has a series of Harriman cars listed in the Walthers catalog that look like they might be re-labled Roundhouse cars. The prototypes were about 60’ and the Roundhouse nodels are shortened slightly from that so they’d run on your 20" curves and would still look fairly prototypical. I don’t know if the cars are currently available from Roundhouse or not but maybe yor LHS might know.
There will probably be those who will tell you that 85’ cars can be tweaked to run on 20" curves. Don’t listen to them! Nothing short of attaching a hinge in the center of the car will make them look anything but rediculous and most conversions will require truck mounted cplrs which will preclude backing movements.
Thanks for the input. That is just what I was hopeing for.
All though, it hit me that I need to make clear my radius issue. While I listed 20", I ment it as a absolute clearance. Meaning that my average curve is around 26" with some going up to 33". I listed 20" simply needing it to clear one small cruve. I have a large grain silo tucked away that might become a passenger station when the mood hits me( I would lift off the silo complex and replace it with passeneger station). To back into it, it would have to clear one tight curve on a industry siding. Then, once on the main line, nothing smaller than 24". Also, my club runs about 3 or 4 times a year with our modules. When we have our layout set up, our minimum is 5 FEET. Yeah, its cool. I kinda prefer to have the larger cars. Besides, the kid loves the big cars. [:D]
If you don’t mind a modern-era passenger train, you can get a pretty good basic set (no DCC or sound) for around $150…
One Athearn RTR P42DC locomotive can cost as little as $45 at places like Trainland… Add to it 4 Walthers Amfleet cars, around $25 apiece… Voila, a nice modern-day Amtrak train that runs pretty reliably for a reasonable cost, and yes it will work on 20" radius curves.
Maybe I am old fashion but,I would go with Athearns unless I had 30" curves simply because the Athearn passenger cars doesn’t look all that bad on say a 22" curve.
As far as getting the most for your hobby dollar here is THE place to shop IMHO.
A passenger train on a budget is not hard. I have an Athearn RTR Amtrak P42 ($40) and 3 Walthers Amtrak Horizon cars ($20 each). Whole train was only around $100.00, not bad considering new locomotives can cost that much these days.
I think you should check out Rapido’s new passenger cars. Buy them as your budget allows, (once a month or two) and you’ll have your train complete before you know it. Look at the pictures on their web site. The underbody detail and interior detail is amazing. Best of all, they’ll meet your radius requirements.
I have found that Spectrum Heavyweights are very nice and can be had for around $17 if you look around. The only thing I don’t like is that they are lighted. Maybe a little tight on the curves but they look good. Otherwise the Athearn passenger cars can be found at a lot of shows for reasonable and work well. I’ve seen them under $10 in kit form and are easy to put together. It’s almost a waste to buy them RTR, no real advantage.
While those are indeed beautiful cars I would not want to operate those on anything less then a 32"- 36" curve. Because being full length cars with fragile details I would want to keep the overhang to a absolute minimum.[:D]
What railroad and what era are you looking to model? I don’t know how true to prototype you are trying to stay, but the Rapido cars are Canadian prototypes, for instance.
And there was my revelation of a few years ago. In the end, upgrading the cheap cars, isn’t cheaper than buying the better ones. I was big time into the Rivarossi, AHM, and IHC passenger cars. I had a pretty good and repeatable method for getting them converted to metal wheels, to sit lower on the trucks, Kadee couplers, adding weight, and a bit of detailing. Then it hit me. I was spending just as much per-car to get the cheap ones up to snuff as I was for a Walthers on sale. That doesn’t even count the time (or fuel) spent getting the parts and doing the modifications. Not only that, but I didn’t have as good as looking car when I got done. With a Walthers I take it out of the box – maybe attach some hand rails – put it on the track and run. So in the long run, doing all that work yourself doesn’t really make the car any cheaper and becomes just a time waster when the whole banana is considered.
Now the 20 inch radius is a different issue. My modifications to the cars assumed they would be running on 30” or better.
For the short curves as others have said, Athearn shorties, the new Rivarossi shorties (but they are $25 per car!), and the old MDC 50 footers will look better.
The unmodified Rivarossi, AHM, and IHC will navigate that tight of a curve, but the overhang on the ends and seeing the rail 3 scale feet from the center of the car are something to consider.
Dont look now but I chose the Walthers heavyweights for my train.
As for your 20" curve you might want to operate a doodle bug from that station to the next that is operationally reachable. (Or bus service if you prefer.)
But that is my thinking.
I did the Athearn thing years ago and eventually discarded it, IHC was something to see with it’s cloud-weight floating off the rails at 18" and a overhang that was something to behold.
I too discarded the IHC because you would need metal wheels (Hobby shop probably would not make more than a penny on those cheep IHC wheels) weight, interiors and people along with couplers… whoa whoa whoa… how much is all of that per car?? RTR for me is a no-brainer, just have to wait for the right ones to come out.
I dont know about Spectrum. I had an oppertunity last year to purchase a 4 car set that is a complete train with PRR markings for 90 dollars. I walked away with doubts due to the weight of the things. Some other lucky person got them by now probably.
Finally Im thinking the Broadway Limited and Rapido are pretty much the top-end all of quality in passenger equiptment. Cost pretty much up there in the 40-60’s or even beyond.
One car per month pending assemply, packing and shipping to the store that is how I did my fleet.
I toss in a vote for the walthers 60’ heavyweights that come in sets. They are made to appear more life like on the sharp curves.
Don’t get me wrong, Most of my passenger car fleet are Walthers.
The 2 IHC cars in my fleet, I don’t have more than $15 ea invested in them. I have about 30 mins total in “upgrading” them, ie adding IHC’s axles & the weight inside.
I’m going to do is paint the inside part of the windows black to represent tinted windows which will save me the expense of having to install an interior & paint.
If you are looking for inexpensive, go IHC unless you happen to find some Walthers cars on sale.
I did the MDC Harriman cars, and although they are relatively decent in most respects, mine are poor trackers. I have a baggage car (or maybe it is a combine…can’y recall) that will not stay on the rails, no matter what I do to it, or where I place it in the order of the consist. I took a deep breath, bought three NYC heavyweights on sale at internet hobbies.com (nearly half-price in May/June), and placed them behind my Hudson as soon as I had some clear trackage.
They sure are purty, and they run real goooooood. Mind you, I have 28" curves as a min on my main, with most in the 36" range or more.
I agree with the periodic purchase, although if you must pay for shipping, they get that much more expensive. Maybe ask the supplier to ship three or four when you have accumulated that many.
Thanks everyone for chipping in their info. I think I sorta shot myself in the foot and should have mentioned it right off the bat about the my radius. On the main line it averages 25-26", but i have on tight spot in a siding where they mighthave to go that would lead to a possible spot for a passeneger station.
But, I am stuck now with ideas. I have 2… I kinda want to buy the whole thing so I am leaning toward the IHC sets. And no, I am really not to worried about prototypical issues. Its mostly for the kid and I to point and go “How Cool!” For some reason, my son has developed a thing for passenger cars. Ah Shucks! [;)] Plus, I would enjoy doing the wheels and tweaking.
And the other… I think I might have to lean toward getting some nice ones and doing the collection thing. I looked at some over the weekend, and there are some really good looking cars. Walthers seems to have a good price/detail level to them. I do want to check out the Bachman Spectrum cars, but cant seem to find any yet.
I will keep you guys posted on what I do. Thanks again for takign time to help. [:D]
BEST ‘BANG’ for the BUCK, is the one PAINTED in the Road you want, or the ATHEARN BB kits.
Money spent on upgrades, wheels, KD’s, etc,.will give better payback with Athearn than IHC.
Selector:
Add body mtd. couplers & weighted trucks. Old MDC & ATHEARN trucks were ‘Talgo’ type, and were often out of gauge. KD’s and IHC’s metal passenger trucks (best thing they make) should clear up everything.
That sounds alot by me…a passenger railroader in the midst of a fright railroader.
As to the problem at hand, I’d stay AWAY from the Walther’s heavyweights. My dad bought one observation and it can’t even make it around our 24" curves, I’m not sure if 25-26" would do any better.
You still haven’t said what kind of train you want, but have you thought of maybe some sort of commuter or regional train? I have the ER models Talgo set (the “beginner” set and add-on cars were on sale at Walthers when I got mine in May, not sure if they still are). Those will even go on my 22" curves. If you look at Railpictures you’ll see that those
That sounds alot by me…a passenger railroader in the midst of a fright railroader.
As to the problem at hand, I’d stay AWAY from the Walther’s heavyweights. My dad bought one observation and it can’t even make it around our 24" curves, I’m not sure if 25-26" would do any better.
You still haven’t said what kind of train you want, but have you thought of maybe some sort of commuter or regional train? I have the ER models Talgo set (the “beginner” set and add-on cars were on sale at Walthers when I got mine in May, not sure if they still are). Those will even go on my 22" curves. If you loo
Manufacturers making SCALE cars (80’ - 85’) are catering to the 24"R - 46"R curve, #8 - #10 turnout. modelers. They also have double the price and detail.
Lionelpioneered the the ‘Basement Railroad on a Board’ with 27"R O gage curves to fit on a std. ‘Table Tennis’ board (todays 15"R HO equivalent) - except ‘todays’ basement board is 4’X 8’ which limits curves to 22" - and less.
A WHOLE INDUSTRY has developed for those building 4X8 layouts: 72’ cars such as those offered by Athearn, MDC, ConCor, and others, are a reasonable compromise, and at reasonable prices - as are 18"R - 22"R compromises , and #6, #4, or turnouts/switches that scribe a circle.
WHICH KIND OF MODELER ARE YOU? Want to run trains that ‘fit’ your layout? or push the envelope? The current issue of MODEL RAILROADER (October ‘05) shows how an 80’ car forms an semi -octagon on a 22"R curve.
It sorta’ advertises Amateur Standing, doesn’t it? YOUR CHOICE.
