John, I was looking at the new Athearn Big Boys yesterday at my LHS. The first two Athearn’s Big Boys I had the smoke box silver was to silver. That is one of the things I like about my PCM Big Boy. This run, they are to over done as you stated. I was thinking some light gray caulk might tone it down some.
I am getting the itch again for a new articulated. May be I will cross my fingers and give Athearn another try. But, it will get a test run first this time.
Cuda Ken
I took a look at the Rivarossi weathered Big Boy, and it reminded me of the camouflage paint jobs the Germans put on their locomotives during WWII. Just my [2c]
I agree that Hornby’s idea of weathering on the RR Big Boy is over-done and doesn’t look that great. If you look at pictures, the Big Boys got dirty, but they didn’t let them get that dirty too often.[:O]
I have both the DC and the DCC Trix Big Boys, and they are great looking and running locomotives, The Trix BB’s and Proto2K 2-8-8-2 and the Lionel HO Challengers(my all time Favorite HO locomotives) are all very smooth slow speed runners, a real pleasure to run in the roundhouse area at the club.
The trix BB’s weakness in my experience is that D**N NEMA coupler arrangement, yes Kadee makes a coupler for it, but the plastic drawbar on the draftgear is not stiff enough, and will flex, causing the coupler head to droop and the couplers would seperate. The locomotive is capable of pulling many more cars than the drawbar would hold, in MY experience. If like on most home layouts you are limited to trains of around 15 cars, this probably wont be an issue. I found out about this the hard way, 28 LOADED coal hoppers(weighted to NMRA specs empty) plus a caboose going up about a 1.25% grade, all of a sudden the locomtive is climbing the grade, and the cars are decsending the grade, and unfortunately an “Emergency Application” doesn’t happen in model railroading. The answer would be to remove the factory drawbar and mount a Kadee draftbox on the tender. Because of the coupler unreliability, these wonderful locomotives were relegated to the Engine Facility during the club’s open houses. I have since mostly changed to 3 rail O Gauge and now they don’t get used, so I never made the time for the coupler box change. I also hated the Loksound system, the club was, and still is running DC, while the DCC version will run in DC, it operates backwards of everythingelse direction wise, in DC.
Doug
I would have to say that the best BB is the PCM brass BB. They are exceptionally nice engines and the detailing is extraordinary. The inside of the cab is very nice and I just love what you see when you open up the many hatches that are available to be opened. I can not imagine anything coming close to it in that regard. I’ve never tried a pulling contest with the brass BB’s but the normal PCM BB is a brute. They can out pull most things. On a 2% grade I have used them to start 72 car trains and they will crawl those up that kind of grade without flinching. The Athearn one is not my favorite, it’s OK but and a fine purchase but it doesn’t come close, in my opinion of course to the PCM version.
I have no clue about the Rivarossi. The Trix version is nice but I can not buy an engine with such small drivers. I’m sorry, for me that is a major reason not to buy that engine.
Magnus
they are right, my Rivarossi big boys electrical pickup are two sets of spring loaded pins. they rub on four wheels (two on each side) thats it!!! the springs in mine don’t spring any more. It only has about an hour run time on it. the worst part is I called/emailed many times hornby england and US. NOBODY has them. what do I do now? anbody have a fix? wilrad
Maybe you can make your own wheels wipers, and make it so more wheels have electrical pickup at the same time. It’s amazing what can be done with Kadee coupler centering springs![:D] I used them to upgrade my MDC Shay from a very poorly setup 6-wheel pickup to a reliable 8-wheel pickup, my Bowser A-5 0-4-0 from 2 engine wheels and 4 tender wheels to all wheels, and quite a few others. They give enough tension for reliable contact, but they’re flexible enough to not restrict wheel movement much.
I own 4 Rivarossi Big Boys, 1 PCM Big Boy, 1 Marklin Trix Big Boy, 1 Athearn Genesis Big Boy,
plus 1 Bowser Big Boy.
In brass I have 1 Olympia Gem Big Boy, 1 Sunset Brass(late series of Big Boy)
and 1 Tenshodo Big Boy.
If you are looking for the finest detail on a non-brass Big Boy then I recommend the
PCM (BLI?). The only detail they missed was the dual electric generator just forward of
the turret, and slightly to the left(it was not installed, and here was no provision for
the installation). None of my other locomotives held a candle to it regarding overall
detail and it pulled over 100 cars with no problem without traction tires. (note
that I added and adjusted weights)
My next choice would be the Genesis series in spite of their plastic construction.
The early Rivarossi units had pizza cutter flanges and undersized wheels and their
latest weathering effort is terrible. The newer Rivarossi do however run better than
the original units.
The best pulling effort is by the re-motored Bowser but even with the super detail kit
the Bowser lacks the finite features of any of the other models. The casting is just
too crude.
As far as a scale representation of the Big Boy, both the Trix(3/8’ too short) and the
Tenshodo(1/2+"too long) fail miserably. In both cases the problem seems to have
been caused by designing the units around driver issues.
The PCM, 1 Rivarossi , Trix, and the Athearn Genesis are DCC/Sound.
Again, two thumbs for the PCM Big Boy. It has rivet detail, latches and plumbing
features sadly missing on all the other Big Boy models including the 4015 Trix
(RP25 flanged).
“I am also curious about the assertion a few posts earlier by Allegheny 2-6-6-6 that the Trix is hands-down the best of all current Big Boys. On what basis is this assertion made? What objective criterea were used, by whom, and what were the results?”
This statement of fact is made on experience and owning or having owned at least one big boy made by everyone who ever manufactured one. I have owned two Athearns and they were a complete disappointment, even more so then the Rivarossi’s as you know what to expect when your buying the lowest end model. I have tow versions sitting on sidings right now both newer Hornby models one completely stock the second with an upgraded MWSL can motor, re-geared, all brass details added and new drivers.It’s a fine running locomotive and even before applying bullfrog snot it was a great puller.
The Trix is by far the best big boy hands down with the exception of my Tenshado Brass Big Boy the Tenshado has a slightly better claim when it comes to pulling power but the Trix pulled 100 PFE Reefers by it self right out of the box and has always stepped up tot he challenge doing the same with 100 proto 100ton coal hoppers. Observing the over all craftsmanship of the Trix compared to all the others is a kin to comparing a Rolls Royce to a Yugo. The fit and finish is fantastic and the smoothness of the running gear is like that of a Swiss watch. Would I ever pay the exorbitant prices asked for a Trix model, unequivocally NO not even close but getting mine at a super deal it was well worth it.
I know some my want to argue this point but I really don’t care, I liken the comparison to one of my favorite locomotives of all time the K4 Pacific. The Spectrum version is the only low end model available and a not to shabby example either that is until you see MTH’s version. It’s just better and it’s obvious in every detail.
It’s just one of those things that just is no matter how you slice it.There is no category wit
I’ve read the other posts and at the risk of offending some readers, I can’t agree on the trix as being the BEST model.
The Trix engine has been around for a long time and for what you get, it is way over-priced, compared to the competition.
The Athearn Big Boy is probably the best in terms of cost per value, but the Tsunami sound falls a little short for Tsunami and is not as good as I had hoped for. I have an Athearn Big Boy with the MRC sound- I gutted that and installed a Tsunami but it never has been quite what I wanted.
The MTH model, just recently released, is a upgraded re-tool of the old PCM Big Boy but with a quantum leap imporvement in the sound and motor department. It also has some improvements in detail.
It is pricey, but at 479.00 I’ve decided it was the best choice for the money - I sold my Blue Line to pay for the MTH version - decidedly a very good decision. for about $25 difference , I upgraded to a better detailed, far better running, and far superior sound equipped locomotive.
I’ve been so pleased with the engine that I went ahead and bought a second one so I could park the 1st under the display case on my fireplace mantel where the other once was displayed.
I don’t expect anyone to buy multiple engines, but before you buy any, I’d give this a once-over.
if you really want the best value and model, the MTH Big Boy is a winner in my book.
HeritageFleet1
I am curious about the whistle on the MTH Big Boy. After watching the video, they only blow the whistle for the back up motion and
CZ…
Hey, you know… I noticed that on their website too…usually, they sound the whistle so you can hear it. On the other hand, that locomotive barely fits on that little circle of track anyway - I don’t know why they didn’t play the whistle.
ANYWAY… to answer your question, yes…I’m very satisfied with the sound of that whistle -on par with the 16 bit fully digital sound recording I’ve come to expect from MTH. The endings are different depending on the length of time you play it and the grade crossing signal(F12) is particularly awsome!
Apparently , whoever the sound engineers are that re-recorded and re-mixed the sounds for this know what they are doing. The back-up signal has two short consecutive toots followed by a shorter fade on the ‘rope’.
I would be very disappointed had it been anything less than what the Challenger whistle offers, which is recorded from the actual 3985.
Really terrific sound.
No synthesizer here .
HeritageFleet1
HeritageFleet1 said
“The MTH model, just recently released, is a upgraded re-tool of the old PCM Big Boy but with a quantum leap imporvement in the sound and motor department. It also has some improvements in detail.”
Them there are fighting words Heretic Fleet 1. [:D] Far as added detail, I have not seen a MTH version so I can not say if it is better than my PCM or not. But I fine it hard to believe there motor or control of the motor is better than my PCM. Out of the box, it moved at 1% power with no CV tinkering. Sound is very robust with a deep whistle. I installed the Loksound 3.5, and the sound files where loaded by Ulrich Model’s, but as far as I know they are the PCM sound files.
I have to agree with C Z, the MTH whistle sounded weak in the knee’s if you ask me.
Cuda Ken
The couple of MTH steamers I have are great, but expensive, runners. They use canon motors and will creep at 1smph. The boilers are also cast so they have that extra weight needed for good traction.
If the Big Boys are made with the same features, they’ll be hard to beat.
So is the 4449’s. I’ll look into the others, but 49’s is almost an octive tooo high. Yeah, the real one COULD hit that note, but it ain’t common. Speaker to sound is good, I’ll give them that. And for the chuff (when it continues to the airhoren sounds too much like a recording, I’d expect that kind of airhorm to come from a communit thetre sound stage.
Also, if you look at MTH, yo need to be aware of one possible problem. MTH uses a chip called DCS. It says it’s DCC compatible, and for the most part is. But it’s a bit like international DVD players, they all play DVDs, but some of them don’t like others. The issue, is that DCS sits on a DC layout and goes “Okay, I’m on DC. I’m Happy” It then gets transplanted to a DCC layout, and goes “Huh? This isn’t my DC? Where am I?” It’ll run, but, andf this is getting better with every release, engines can stopp responding, take off randomly fulltilt boogie, or just stop dead. In which case, it needs to be tipped so that as much of every poweri
Cuda… I appreciate your position, as I, too… have owned the PCM model and the later Blue Line version as well. Since I’ve either owned both or have both, I’m qualified to make the following determination based on both my own listening observation, and those many who have also heard the comparision.
You simply cannot beat full 16 bit digital - but someday, they’ll have 64 bit sound audio and my MTH will probably sound like crap compared to it… but I don’t care because I’ll probably be deaf by then - or too old to give a rat’s #@!
Lets keep this in perspective. When the PCM came out (what, 6-7 yrs ago?) it utilized the LokSound 2.0, as did most PCM at the time…and it was the best available at that time, IMHO. The Blue line was not bad but didn’t hit par - it was a BlueLine for crying out loud, and I didn’t make a big deal about it since I bought it primarily for display under glass.
The advances made in audio technology through digital re-mixing, have made the stuff that MTH is programming into their locomotives really push the envelope in terms of sound quality.
The Tsunami is the only other thing that is coming close.
Having just run this at a recent show, there were a ton of people who stopped and were very impressed with the sound and operation of the engine.
So, I wouldn’t judge any product by what I hear on the website - nothing does it justice like hearing it in person.
The sound quality was primarily the reason for selling of my others to get this one - I knew the sound would be superb.
Anyway…no fighting from me, my friend - its all in how you interpret things - that’s what makes the hobby so great.
Glad to hear from you again…have fun model railroading!
HeritageFleet1
Flashwave…
I don’t follow you about the DCS on your club layout? we’ve(our club members) have been running these on the layout for years now on a DCC command system, without any problems…can you clarify your statement/ concern?
Thanks in advance…
HeritageFleet1
Heritage Fleet 1 said
“Lets keep this in perspective. When the PCM came out (what, 6-7 yrs ago?) it utilized the LokSound 2.0, as did most PCM at the time…and it was the best available at that time, IMHO.”
So they came with the Loksound 2.0, that might be why my sounds and runs so good. When I bought mine it was with out sound. Then Terry From Texas (member of the site) bought a H 8 and did not like the sound. He gave me the Loksound 3.5, I sent it to Ulrich Models to have the Big Boy Files down loaded into the decoder. He all so sent me the POS speaker that was in the H 8. I bought the stock speakers the Big Boy came with.
Far as the Tsunami, friend of mine, all so a member of the site brought over his Big Boy with the Tsunami decoder installed. It was no contest, the Loksound 3.5 Blew it away, Simon (owner of the Tsunami Big Boy engine) was blown away with the sound of mine.
Can you post a video of your MTH Big Boy? I will do the same if you can.
To bad you live so far away, I would love to see and hear it in person. This is all so not my first Big Boy, it is my third and best so far.
Cuda Ken
Sure… I’m still at the office but I can probably create some shots and try to get them posted on here this evening - I may have to file these on photobucket first then transfer the file- If I recall correctly.
Just keep watching the post - I’ll get something on here for you.
HeritageFleet1
Okay, here are some shots of the Big Boy from MTH release:
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/heritagefleet1/UPBIGBOY
](http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/heritagefleet1/UPBIGBOY!%5B%5D(http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/heritagefleet1/UPBIGBOY4017007.jpg)!%5B%5D(http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/heritagefleet1/UPBIGBOY4017002.jpg)){kind=link}