Best Quality Engines

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
21

In what way specifically?

Six axle locomotives (especially longer wheel base ones) require better quality trackwork. You can get away with absolutely awful track work with a 4 axle diesel.

Ive got a pair of BLI SD40-2s that run just fine, as well as a BLI E7. Only had a minor decoder glitch on the E7 (discussed at length on this forum somewhere, and yes I did get the new decoders installed, no I did not get to test them).

Im not a fan of having to move the locomotive for the sound to start though.

As far as Athearn goes, well, I had a Genesis GP7 show up (new from LHS) with a wheelset popped out of the side frame and detail parts floating around in the box. Athearn received a phone call and an email. Response was that other modelers were complaining about too much glue (except that in my case there was no evidence of glue). Also its weight is on the light side. My guess is this was a Monday morning or Friday afternoon locomotive.

Every manufacturer makes their own share of lemons.

I recently purchased 3 Intermountain SD40-2s, all from same production run, three different road numbers. 2 of them ran perfectly, one picked #6 turnout frogs. It had a warped truck upon close inspection (sent back for repair).

22

Boo Rim Precision and Sam Modeltech, both located in S. Korea, make great trains that run very well…except they happen to be brass (allegedly also including in Boo Rim’s case, the brass hybrids made for BLI) but they are far from what anyone would call “cheap”. Imo you get what you pay for, unless you are proficient enough to build/kitbash/otherwise modify your own motive power (my hat’s off to those who do, but it ain’t me). Others will not share my opinion, but I don’t have to worry or fret about the QA/QC of plastic locomotives anymore. The very recent stuff from the brass importers has been fantastic where QA/QC is concerned, and even the BLI brass hybrids can be an excellent value, with rather few lemons. But then also, the choices are limited to what BLI offers. Then you are stuck with their sound (which may not be as good as the models are) and their smoke (which most just don’t need).

John

23

Agreed, modern/current brass is generally outstanding in quality.

But as I commented above, if they don’t make the models you want, than what difference does it make how good they are?

Maybe you are happy just picking something from a very short list, but many of us have more specific, or if I dare, more sophisticated goals.

Again, nothing against what you do in this hobby, but it simply does not fit with many peoples goals/wants.

As for cost, I spent $10 for trucks and couplers on nearly every one of 1000 freight cars, many of which were only $5 cars years ago when I bought them, we all make choices about performance and cost.

But since I can successfully work on model locomotives, most brass is way past my “point of diminishing returns”. The better trucks and couplers on those freight cars that allow me to easily pull 50 car trains are way more important.

But I do agree

24

Sheldon–

As this topic is about the best quality engines, I interpreted that to mean “best, period, regardless of price”, and added my 2c about the brass. If we are discussing the best, period, I think the brass is worth mentioning as it is one alternative. Others will choose different alternatives.

I acknowledge that many will not share my views. However, when you think about it, for the dollar investment that many folks have in their loco rosters, they actually could have a few higher priced hybrids or even the full blown brass models for the same money invested–but just have less of them. Many folks are modeling a huge mainline empire (or storing engines in the closet diesel shed for someday).

For example, I’m not modeling in the diesel era, and my limited layout does not need helper engines. If I was in the diesel era, I would likely have 3 and 4 unit sets of diesels to simulate mainline operations. If I bought those as Genesis level units, for say 4 or 5 of them, I would be at the same price point as many (singular, one each) brass steam engines. So it’s a matter of choices. Some have 80 unit or greater diesel rosters, and I have 5 steam engines. Which actually costs more, in total value? We all are making the best choices that we can with our limited hobby money. I chose to abandon present day modeling. I have friends who have easily more than 100 diesels in a closet and no layout yet to run them on.

Again, my hat is off to all those who are able to modify or build their own, who are fine with taking a USRA steamer and reconfiguring it to appear as something else.

Yes, Sheldon is right, I choose to try to find the very best possible, and then choose, from the rather limited availability of what is out there currently, the engines that I want to have. Also, if one chooses to be patient, there have been many m

25

John,

I was not challenging the idea that brass should be in the discussion, it should be.

If you read my very first post in this thread I made the same challenging statement about KATO or Atlas, what difference does it make how good they are if they don’t make what you want?

I have ZERO interest in modern diesels, you can pretty much count on one hand the diesels that KATO or Atlas have made that are in my 1954 era, so as a practical matter for me, their quality is of no importance.

If we count each unit of a multi unit diesel lashup as a locomotive, I have a bunch. In my era mainline diesel trains were pulled by 3, 4 or even 6 units as a common practice.

And I model steam in a place, time and way where many trains are double headed, just like most every west bound B&O freight leaving Baltimore in 1954 had two Mikados on the head end.

So if I look at it in terms of number of trains I can field motive power for, on a layout that can handle 50 to 60 car trains, the number is about 30 mainline trains and some switchers/special purpose locos.

Not really that many for an operation oriented 1000 sq ft layout that can store 25 trains.

And, not being in DCC or sound, and having bought a great many of my locos a decade or two ago, and having never sold off previous purchases, the current prices of DCC sound equiped locos do not relate to me either.

So your price comparison does not hold up for me. My “average” ABBA set of EMD F7’s or ALCO FA’s, or four GP7’s typically represents a total investment of $200 to $400, sometimes less, no where near the price of some of your brass.

Sheldon

26

Sheldon–

Sorry if you feel I didn’t quite get it.

Maybe not Sheldon, but others tend to think in terms of how many diesel units they have on hand, or desire to have on hand, for the layout they think they will have.

I actually get bargains on recent brass sometimes too, in which case a couple or three of your ABBA sets would indeed buy a top of the line factory painted steamer, from the very best builder out there, at the average prices you quote for your diesel sets (ie $900).

It’s all about smart shopping. Deals actually do become available. Sometimes I’m shocked at what is out there for what price that people don’t bid on.

But again–that does not help one if it’s not the exact roadname you want to have. I can totally respect that.

In my case, I will and do buy something when I know it is simply a great buy, when I think I can flip it later for a lot more money if I need to do so. If and when I trade, I want to trade up, to where I’m getting something for less monetary outlay on my part than whatever its fair market value might be.

I now have a better plan of what I want for my personal roster.

John

27

No John you missunderstood. $200 bought the whole four unit set of Proto FA2’s. Actually it was less than $200 for those…

I don’t think I have more than $120 in ANY single diesel unit. Many only cost $30 to $70 each.

And $300 is about my top expenditure for a steam loco.

130 powered units, dollar cost average = $100

Remember, no sound, no DCC.

Of those 130 powered units, about 50 are steam, about 7 are selfpropelled passenger, the rest diesel.

90% have been purchased in the last 20 years, remember I have been in the hobby for nearly 50 years. When I was young and had less money, I had less trains.

Sheldon

28

I got the dollars part. I used an average of the $200 to $400 further above you quoted for an entire ABBA set, of $300 (which could make sense today if one bought new F units), and equated 3 ABBA sets to the price of one extraordinarily detailed and painted brass steamer I got in an Ebay deal. It’s simply a matter of preferences and priorities. I want the ultimate in detail and running quality, even if just plain dc. That comes at a price.

We are comparing the cost of apples and oranges. Two completely different, opposite motive power philosophies. Both have some merit, at least to one of us.

I have no big future layout plans so I don’t need multiple trains. I want to have a couple big Rio Grande articulateds and some Rio Grande 4-8-2’s to go with what I have now. That’s really it.

John

29

John, but once again it seems your are trying to “sell” your modeling goals, and/or negate the goals of others. I don’t want to “settle” for less quantity to get higher quality - because the quality already equals or exceeds my needs/wants/goals.

It is fine that you do not want to do what I am doing. But it sounded pretty condescending when you talk about guys with big rosters for layouts not built, with the obvious implication that those layouts will never get built…

And you talk about diesels like that only means “modern” modeling. Guess what, they had lots of diesels in 1954, that was 63 years ago…that is my era of modeling choice.

Detail - first about diesels. I’m sorry but ANY Proto2000 diesel is for the most part plenty accurate and well detailed enough for my goals…and I suspect for the goals of 90% of modelers in this hobby, even pretty serious ones.

Detail - steam. I have Bachmann Spectrum, Proto, BLI, some ol

30

Once again you completely misunderstand me and my intentions.

The market is actually being driven by the loudest and most vocal 10 percent or less who are loudly clamoring for what they think the rest of us need. Read some posts on other forums like the Atlas Rescue Forum if you dont believe me. They are not posting flattering words about older Proto engines.

And yes it is factually true that many in this hobby accumulate but never build the layout. That includes my friends who are now dead and gone, including another one just recently. I was by more than 15 years the youngest member of the group…

I am merely telling it like it is. If you dont like it, fine, we need to agree to disagee. This battle of words is getting a bit old, no???

31

For reliabilty it’s Atlas and Kato (HO scale) take the prize for first place. Intermountain’s not bad and the Genesis line from Athearn is also, especially when it gets into detail on the diesels. But for smooth, quiet running… the quality I personally like best, it’s Atlas and Kato.

32

The market is driven by what sells, just look at the changes in the Bachmann line in the 5 years - moving away from high end. And Athearn still doing well selling 50 year old tooling with new paint jobs and metal wheels.

The market is also driven by what manufacturers will or will not take a chance on - that’s why we have too many Big Boys and not enough variety.

Why are you so invested in what others say, do or think? What difference does it make who buys what and whether or not they build a layout?

Why would I care what someone on the Atlas Rescue forum says about older Proto locos? I have 40 of them and 25 years experiance with them, they all run great and look great. I have fun with them. My self esteem is not invested in the opinions of others about the model trains I own.

Happy to march to my own drum, don’t need to be part of a “group”. Trust me, you are not going to “save” anyone from themselves…

Sheldon

33

The point is the manufacturers are paying close attention to the folks on the Atlas Rescue Forum. Their track record of clamoring for certain engines and rolling stock to be produced over the last couple years at Genesis detail levels is actually astounding. While I might not need those items, both Athearn, and the guys who left Athearn (ScaleTrains), along with Rapido in particular have been serving up a plethora of new models that were hot discussion topics over on that forum.

One could easily argue that the vast majority of the buying public maybe doesn’t need or want some of those items, but they are getting made, including yet another SD-40-2…Though relatively few in numbers, the forum members have made strong enough arguments. “The squeaky wheel gets the grease”.

34

Never mind.

35

Actually it takes far more then a few forum members to get models done. Does Face Book ring a bell? There’s a mighty voice there that grabs the manufacturers attention both good and bad.

So,that " squeaky wheel" is far larger then the few tiny voices on ARF. ARF is just a small tooth on that rather large “squeaky wheel”.

Also recall some fellas said on the old Atlas forum a GP10 will never get produce because of the variants between locomotives and all the while there was a larger clamour for a GP10.

IM listen to that clamour for a GP10 and now we have one with a GP16 in the works. Then we can’t forget the Athearn/Genesis GP7u.

We still don’t have that often ARF requested Genesis level older GE locomotive. Maybe some day when that larger “squeaky wheel” raises enough clamour to get the manufacturer’s attention.

36

So what? If they sell great, if not those companies will not last. I don’t own anything from Rapido or Scale Trains - don’t plan to at this point. The RDC is the only product they have made that is even on my radar - and while I understand its price, I’m not motivated to spend that kind of money on that item.

Scale Trains - I wish them luck, but they started off with a very “collector” or specialized group of product, hope it works out…

Still having fun with all my “pedestrian” model trains…

I don’t have time for the Atlas Rescue Forum, I barely have time for this one…and I really don’t care what they think about my old Proto locos. If they came to my layout and talked like that I would show them the door…

Again, why do you care so much what that group of people says?

Sheldon

37

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This is so true.

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I the past 5 years all three daughters have moved out, I have been moved to a regional manager position, my wife has excelled at hear job, and we have paid off all the credit cards.

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The train population is growing, and the quality if definitely improving.

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Only 2 painted STRATTON & GILLETTE locomotives were saved from the previous running roster. All steam locomotives have been replaced.

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-Kevin

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38

Your Hemingwayish spare use of words to express a feeling of increasing ennui is a bold counter statement to the prevailing modern trend of flogging a deceased equine until it becomes one with the soil, Byron. Bravo. Bravo, indeed.

Andre

39

I think that would be the proverbial deceased equine, Andre. Nonetheless, I’m willing to let it rest. [swg]

Tom

40

And a relieved populace thanks you for that choice, Tom.

Andre