My layout shares our garage with a Mini Cooper, a freezer, a washer dryer pair and too much other stuff. Now that winter has arrived I would spend a lot more time on the layout if it was warmer out there. The garage is attached to the house but I don’t want to cool the rest of the house by putting in duct work to the uninsulated garage. The climate here has very mild winters but even 55 degrees feels cold when your body is more accustomed to 90+. I want to put in a heater of some type that will be strong enough to knock off the chill but don’t want anything to blow scale hurricane winds on the layout nor leave a film on the tracks. There are limits on what I can spend even though I can get a little extra by making the laundry area warmer for the wife… A slow ceiling fan and a low floor level fan make the garage habitable at night during the summer along with a screen that allows opening the garage door without inviting in a few million mosquitoes but the cold (to me) winter all but shuts down layout work. One other restriction- there is no gas line out here and propane tanks are not allowed so gas heat is not an option.
55 degrees is cold? I’m out in shorts and a t-shirt in that temperature, lol. I would look at a couple electric radiant heaters for the garage, you can get ones that heat up to 1000 square feet. I would also insulate it if I were you or you will be throwing your money away.
INSULATE, INSULATE, INSULATE!
The walls, the ceiling, and around the garage doors. If the doors are not wood, insulate them, too. You will be astounded how much difference it makes. Insulation will keep it warmer in the winter and cooler in the summer. My walls were already finished, so I used blown in insulation in the walls.
Having done that, I can make it very warm with a free standing kerosene heater. FYI; when I added the kerosene heater, I also installed a CO detector.
My layout is in a relatively well-insulated basement, so I have little need for supplemental heating. I have one of those oil-filled electric heaters that looks like a small radiator on wheels. Puts out pretty good heat, probably more than enough to deal with South Texas winters. Problem may be finding one for sale in that part of the country, but should be available mail-order is not.
I also agree with insulating as best you can or at least sealing areas that provide air flow into the space.
Wow…55 Deg… I left the ski slopes last night at -2 Deg and woke up to -7 this morning.
Is the garage attached to the house? Maybe as simple as extending a heat run from the house to the garage if it is. If not, as a couple other posters mentioned, the small oil filled electric radiant heaters might do the trick.
I do understand the aclimation thing though. I have 4 engineers and thier families from India living in a couple of my appartment houses currently. They are all her on work visas for a company in town. All are from the southern part of india where their climate is similar to Mexico City. Moving to Western NY in late spring…gave them no clue to what they were about to experience. The look on the face of one of them was priceless when I spoke of -25 to -30 degree temps. It was even more priceless when I mentioned that that was farenheight and not celcius. of course at those temps the scale is pretty close. I think they cross at -40 or -42.
The two temperature scales meet at -40…never in the positive range. I too have used the oil filled heaters and they work very well; however it does take a while for them to heat a room.
As other have mentioned, insulate the garage as best you can. BTW: 55 degrees where I live is short sleeve weather. [:-^]
Apart from insulation, or better insulation than what exists if at all feasible, you have no option but to use radiant electric heat, perhaps a heater that also has a fan. A single heater of 1600 watts will do the trick, but not quickly, and not in a double car garage, and not in windy conditions. You will need two with that wattage, and should count on them costing you near $40 each for decent ones.
Crandell
Move to miami! :0)
Has anyone mentioned insulation? [(-D]
Not only will it save you money on heat, it will also keep the garage cooler in the summer. Up here in New England, even the garage doors are made of insulating material.
I would reconsider the option of adding some ductwork to piggyback off your home heating system. Hot air systems will warm the space up quickly, and your house probably has ample extra capacity, at least during the daytime. You will want some way to block off the garage zone when you’re not using it, though, so you’re not simply wasting heat. Also, electric heat is about the most expensive way to warm the room in most places, so if your home heating system is oil or gas you will get those BTUs for less.
Another cheap trick is carpet. Just get some scraps and remnants and put them around your layout space where you work and operate. The hard concrete of a garage floor will wick heat away from your feet, and make you feel colder. The carpet provides a layer of insulation and it’s also a much more comfortable platform to stand on for extended periods. And face it, you’re not ever going to find one of those Kadee coupler springs on your concrete floor anyway, so losing it in the carpet is no big deal.
My layout is in an unheated but well insulated brick shop building. In our hot humid summers a window AC unit does the trick, in winter, I use an oil-filled electric radiator type heater. Got it at Lowes for about $70. It has a built in daily timer and gives out safe, even heat. It warms up the 400 sq. ft room in about 30 minutes.
Jim
LION agrees with Mr. B. INSULATE! I was going to tell you that we have insulated garage doors here in North Dakota, but apparently he uses them in the mild climes of New England.
Get pink (or Blue) foam, the 2" kind and line your garage with them, and do not forget the overhead. If you do not want a big paddle fan over your layout, you could put it over the car, it will still circulate air.
Put in a little duct work, just one that will move the heat from the top of the room to the bottom of the room. For a little more money, you can put a duct heater and a fan in this thing and be all set.
The Carpet is the BEST IDEA yet that had not been mentioned by anyone else. Carpet the entire garage. It is there for insulation not for looks although it will help with that too. And besides, your car will LIKE being parked on a carpet.
Some electric space heaters are a good idea, keep them away from anything flammable, or better yet, just install electric baseboard heat. It does not cost all that much. Put it on a timer so that it will come on about two hours before you go in to work on the trains.
The LION has his layout in a third floor classroom with two big steam radiators. One of these is disconnected, it is no longer needed since the big classroom windows were replaced with insulated panels, dual pane tinted glass and such. It makes for good UV protection for the layout as well. Since this classroom is in the library building, the UV windows were necessary to protect the books. The steam heat has a thermostatic valve, it idles by on a medium setting, there is no need to crank it up.
If your garage has a window, put storm windows on it to prevent heat loss.
Hot and Cold running water is not a bad idea either, but if you go this far you will probably want to add a sauna anyway.
[LIONS can get carried away you know.]
Also agree w/ so many that you will have to insulate. Most attached garages don’t have any ceiling, only the open truss or crosstie framing. Not sure if you do have this or it has been done. 90% of the heat loss is up and through the roof. Also w/o insuation the summer heat “cooks” the entire garage, rather than confining to the loft.
Some minor framing/ strapping may be needed to insulate and DW the ceiling. The walls should be straighforward. If you do completely insulate, make sure there is adaquate attic venting, either by gable louvers or ridge vent and soffit vents. Ceiling insulation should never touch the roof sheathing if soffit vents are used. This will block the convection flow of air to the ridge vent.
I understand that ambient temperature is a “creature comfort” issue, but, for the sake of your layout, in particular the trackwork, keeping the humidity level constant is a greater issue. this is especially true if you have plywood or, God forbid, homasote, under your track.
grizlump
What about an Air-air heat inverter?
A lot of my friends use them as the electricity is gettin very expensive…
I have one as well (4.9 Kw output, 1.2 Kw input…), and it filters the air inside as well so the amount of dust is kept to the minimum.
As has been pointed out, with no natural gas or propane available, your only other viable option is electric heaters. You could put a small wood stove in there, but they’re not a great idea for a place that’s typically full of things with the potential to go BOOM! or ignite easily, lol. They are work. You need to get firewood/pellets and keep the stove loaded. then you gotta clean it out, clean the chimney, etc. And they make a LOT of dust. I have a kerosene heater in my garage, but I use it for working on cars. Kerosene smells bad, IMO, and I wouldn’t want my layout smelling like it.
So yeah, electric is your only choice. It’s easy to install if your house wiring is solid, but it EATS energy.
Being from a cold weather area (it’s 11* outside right now), I agree 100% about insulation on the walls, ceiling and garage doors. Adding weatherstrip to all doors and windows helps greatly, too. If you tighten up the room, you not only will save on heat loss, but you’ll reduce the amount of times/days you’ll need to turn the heat on. So it’ll really lessen the blow on your electric bill and pay for itself over time. You also could run a run of duct out there without needing to worry about a temp drop in the rest of the house, if it properly insulated. Talk to a heating guy first because I’m not sure about air inlets coming into the house from a garage. That might not be such a hot idea.
Carpeting is another great idea. Don’t put it under the car, though. That’s just begging for disaster. Concrete often does "sweat’ with humidity/weather changes so you might introduce mold issues under a parked car- which is never a good thing. Your laundry’s going to add moisture in the air, too. Any leak (gas, oil, coolant, brake fluid, etc) from a car, or your washing machine, etc now becomes a royal pain the clean up, or a a potential health or fire possibility. So, icksnay on the
Last week I had a very good experience shopping for a heater for my workshop with an outfit called Air and Water. Url is www.air-n-water.com. The rep. was very helpful on the phone, good prices, free shipping. Might be worth talking to them for ideas.
Lance
Visit Miami’s Downtown Spur at www.lancemindheim.com
I agree with the advice about insulating, but it’s only worthwhile, financially, if you’re going to be using the area a lot in temperatures which you find uncomfortable. That includes the heat of summer, too.
Insulation or not, the easiest solution for cool weather is a portable electric heater with an integral fan. It will heat the area quickly, and you can place it anywhere. If you’re working in one spot, put it close by and you won’t even have to wait for the whole garage to warm-up. I do agree with the suggestion to separate the space from the rest of the garage, though, if it’s practical. Your layout will stay cleaner and you can more easily control the climate within.
My layout is in an unheated but well-insulated basement - outdoors, temperatures seldom drop below -20F, but the space remains comfortable. I use a 1500 watt portable heater with a fan in my paint shop, which is in the garage about 100’ behind the house. Once the compressor is warmed-up enough to run, the heater is no longer needed, even on the coldest days.
Wayne
Wayne, do you ever have a problem w/ the compressed air being so cold? Or do you wait until the garage and compressor is at a reasonable temp to paint?
I wouldn’t attempt painting unless the outlet air is at areasonable room temp. I will paint when the compressor, paint and model have acclimated to room temp or at least somewhere close…
There is no noticeable smell from my kerosene heater. It warms an entire cold room in about 5 minutes.
I talked to an HVAC guy about running a duct from the house. He said it would add 400 heated sq ft to my tax assessment.
The insulation made a HUGE difference both summer and winter. I have not yet had to use the heater this season. I need only a fan all summer.
A word of caution on a couple of points previously mentioned.
1) It is not a good idea to have the house heating system also heating the garage through duct-work, even if it is only blowing INTO the garage. When the fan is off, it is possible for carbon monoxide from the car exhaust to travel back into the house by convection. This is DEADLY. Also, definitely no cold air return from the garage to the furnace and your door from the house to the garage should have an automatic closer and seal tight.
2) Definitely insulate the garage AND the door. If you do though, be sure to put up drywall and seal all the joints with compound. Those Pink and Blue insulation panels give off toxic gasses when exposed to flame. Here in Ontario, Canada, it is against the Building Code not to comply with these two items. (Plus many others.)
Also, those floor panels previously mentioned would be a good idea for putting on the floor around the layout. Just put some plywood sheets on top of them. It will be much more comfortable than walking on that cement floor.
Blue Flamer.