I’m looking to buy an HO Big Boy. My price range is limited so I think I have to choose between the Rivarossi and the Athearn models, unless someone out there knows of another manufacturer at a similar price.
I haven’t been able to look at either of them in person, but what I’ve seen on the MR site both seem perfectly adequate to me. The weathering on the Rivarossi model I like (yes, it’s a bit over the top, but that doesn’t bother me), but it seems to lack a bit in the details (brakes and footplate extension resting on the tender). The Athearn model is a little more expensive and from what I can gather probably more detailed, but I do like the weathered look and yes I could weather it myself, but I’d rather not.
I only run DC right now, but do plan to go DCC sometime in the future so I’m thinking about the DCC/Sound equiped locos. The reviews seem to prefer the Athearn sound, but in the internet videos I can’t tell much difference between them.
Ok, cut to the chase. Any opinions on which to pick? If I went with the Rivarrosi (which is my favorite) would I be able to add brake detail and a plate to extend the footplate to the tender? Not interested in brand bashing, just the benefit of the experience of those who are lucky enough to have either.
Neither! The Athearn decoder is a big POS. I HAD 2 of them, note I said HAD! I went with a PCM with loksound, but that would be over your prices range. On the budget you have I would look for a BLI Blue Line. From what I have read they are good DC with sound engines. You can add a DCC motor decoder when you are ready.
Thanks to both of you. I had a further look into the Athearn model, looks like it come in a weathered version so I’m happy there. The BLI model does look to be discontinued to may be hard to find, but certainly looks to be a good model if I could find one.
Looks like Athearn is winning at the moment then. I have to admit I’m a little disappointed about the Rivarrossi. I’m a Brit so feel some sentimental garbage over Hornby. I read more about the pickup problems and it seems crazy to market something with an issue like that when you’re up against the Athearn model at almost exactly the same price, and missing detail like brakes! I wonder if the sounds include brake squeals, remembered the sound of them, but forgot to put them on physically?
Dan, look around for the BLI version they are out there.
I did not list all the problems I had with the two different Athearns. Decoder problem by them self should scare you off! Unless you want to spend $300.00 then install a new decoder! Yes I remember you want to run DC for now.
First Big Boy tender would not roll on a 7 inch incline on my test track! I was trying to figure out why a stock blue box diesel could out pull it. Athearn tech told me to take it back to my LHS and ask for a exchange. Second one, well did not like left turns!
I messed with it and got it all most right, then the decoder went silly and I was done! I am sure many people have not had a problem with theres. But only way I buy one is if I could get it for $100.00 max!
If you can get one on your side of the pond than go for it.
If you are just looking for a good pulling Articulated look at the BLI Y6-b.
It is smaller than a Big Boy, but will pull as much if not more! Again it is a PCM, but there was all so a Blue Line not that long ago.
Look on E Bay for either. PM me if you need help with shipping.
Thanks again. Ok, I’ll look harder for a BLI. I’m actually the right side of the pond for shipping, made the trip to New Jersey about 8 years ago. Thanks for the offer though.
I’m running an Athearn Genesis Big Boy on 24" radius, 29" and 30" radius curves. I also run it through a yard full of #5 turn outs (Shinohara) without problems. Mine has the MRC decoder in it and I’m not happy about that (so far so good but always watching and waiting…) but their newest version has Tsunami in it. Beautifully detailed and a good puller for me on 2% grades. I would encourage radius of 30" minimum but mine does fine on a 24" radius drill track. A decoder replacement on the older MRC version should run about $125 or so if you don’t have a skilled buddy to help you or do it themselves. Sorry Ken had such a rough time with his two, but mine has behaved itself for over a year. They’re a gorgeous model with lots of detail. “Bullet proof” track work and level subroadbed with proper vertical easements are essential with articulateds the size of Big Boys and Challengers. The lead pilot trucks on locos like these are very fussy, climbing easily over the rail on curves and turn outs if things aren’t aligned and some additional weighting on the pilot and trailing trucks is often needed. (self adhesive backed tire weights trimmed to size.)
David B, that is a 26 inch left turn. Funny thing is it would track on a 18 inch right turn? I was adding shims under the front truck and it was getting better when the decoder started acting up.
Captain, glad you are having good luck with yours. If mine had a better decoder I would have kept one and got it working right.
Far as that real nasty looking solder joint, it still there and none of my other 30 engines have a problem with it.
Silver Pilot, the new section was done much better, but the old section tracks just fine now.
I was very unhappy with my 4 BLI Blueline mikados and 1 Paragon I-1sa 2-10-0. Even in the more expensive BLI Paragon engine, I never knew which day the sound would actually work or not at all. The stupid wire plug connection between engine and tender is also a weak link in BLI locomotives and is vastly inferior to MTH’s drawbar connection.
My long-time friend and sales manager of a fine train store says the Athearn Big Boy is significantly better than the Rivarossi. I have a weathered Athearn version on order; the weathered ones are due in the U.S. near the end of April.
For those who want a good running Challenger, the MTH one runs fantastically well, with outstanding lights, sound, and smoke! I can run it 80 scale mph on my Kato track with no issues at all (26.375" minimum radius with 28.75" radius easements into every horizontal curve, and Kato #6 turnouts). It is completely stock, with zero modifications required to get it to negotiate my trackwork. The heavy diecast boiler probably helps with the tracking!
I have not had a chance to run an Athearn Challenger, but the model does look terrific.
My two cents wroth of advice is unless your modeling the UP steam era don’t bother with a Big Boy.too many issues, Price being the first and foremost, technical problems such as the pick up issues on the Rivarossi versions which I have yet to experience even owning two of them but they definitely do exist. Running issues involving tighter turns, Yes they will run on curves as tight as 18" but what they don’t tell you is everything next to the track like utility poles, sign posts signals etc. must be moved further away as when the engine goes through the curve the cab will swing out and clip everything in it’s path. Like the prototype they like to run on big sweeping curves. I used to mode the UP late 1950’s on a 50’x100’ home layout and I didn’t think that was big enough. If your thinking big locomotive = big pulling power - big long trains not gonna happen. I have Athearn, Rivarossi, Trix and two Brass Big Boys and none of them are great pullers. The brass one’s being the best only because of the sheer weight difference.
If it’s articulated locomotives that your after there are a lot better choices then a Big Boy, A Y3 or Y6B, an H8 a Challenger is probably one of the more versatile articulated locomotives. but if it’s a big boy your after just ask yourself whats your top priority, the cost or the performance that will determine your answer.
I have a Rivarossi Big Boy, Challenger and Y-6b. None of them are DCC or sound equipped. I bought them all on Ebay for just under $100 each (very lucky but if you are patient you can get them). These are all used engines and are of the latest runs with the smaller RP25 wheel flanges. They all run very well without any pickup problems. Most of my curves are 30" radius or more, but I have some #4 turnouts that they go through without any problems. I plan to convert them all to DCC within the coming year. I don’t have DCC system but that is the next purchase (Digitrax most likely). I have two BLI Hudson’s with sound and they are absolutely great; sound and performance on DC.
One note: The Rivarossi engines don’t have the level of detail as the BLI or from what I hear the Athearn engines either. They are still very impressive locomotives to see running on your layout and you can always add detail parts to them, which I plan to do when I get my layout to the point where I can concentrate on that aspect of the hobby.
Just wanted to give a plus for the Rivarossi engines. I suggest you find a place to see the engines in person where ever you can.
Sooooooo its just a coincidence that the picture you posted of the big boy shows it derailing right at that nasty looking solder joint? There’s no cause/effect going on there? As someone else posted, they big boy is very sensitive to poor trackwork and will find the slightest dip in the outside rail on a curve and derail. I’ve experienced the same thing with P2K SD7s. Looking at the derailment picture is looks like in your inexperience you first put down some kind of grass mat or fake grass indoor/outdoor carpet and then laid your track on top of it. This would create the slight dips in the track that were mentioned and cause derailments. I get back to me response - poor subroadbed and trackwork were more likely than not the root cause of all the issues you were experiencing.
Uh, not sure I agree with everything you are saying here. Though I’ve not yet owned a Big Boy, I have owned plenty of big steam engines that pulled everything I could put behind them! Also, the Bowser Big Boys were easily capable of pulling more than 100 cars–but are a challenging kit to assemble.
The early 1980’s Key Imports articulateds are insanely good pullers. One DRGW L-105 4-6-6-4 I had pulled 50 cars up 2.5% grades on reverse curves at a walk pace, with no slipping at all–and that included 10-12 heavy brass freight cars.
The MTH HO engines, as recently tested in the train magazines are outstanding pullers (if you leave the traction tires installed). As tested, the MTH Union Pacific 4-12-2 had the equivalent drawbar force to pull 150 properly weighted cars on level track! I’m sure the MTH Challenger is comparable, but I don’t have anywhere near that many cars to be able to verify.
There are big engines that will pull.
Also, overhang on horizontal curves is a function of the model’s design–ie where they choose to locate the pivot point. Lionel/MTH made the cab overhang more on the Challengers so that the front of the smokebox doesn’t overhang much at all (and looks really good). Be advised: the MTH 4-12-2 smokebox overhangs slightly more than the 4-6-6-4’s cab does.
Silver Pilot, the picture was of the second Athearn Big Boy, the first one that had the bad tender did not flip it front trucks on that section. It just so happen I did take the picture there, it did the same thing on the next left hand turn. But there where a lot of buildings in the way.
John, sorry to hear you have or had problems with your BLI and Blue Line engines. I have 4 BLI steam with QSI and 3 Blue Lines and there sound decoders have been rock solid .
Allegheny my friend. I think my PCM Big Boy would change your mind on pulling power. ( all so the reason I took back my first Athearn) I never pushed the PCM Big Boy, but it has pulled 40 cars here at my home track. I have no reason to think with the lack of effort it was showing it could pull as many as my Y6-b. Y6-b has pulled 70 cars at K-10 Model Trains layout up a 1.2% grade. When we lashed up 90 cars they string lined on a 30 inch turn going up grade.
It’s amazing how varied all of our experiences are with the same locomotives. My Bluelines/Paragons have so far also been dependable (although nothing is forever). I haven’t run anything for more than break in times plus a few hours of fun runs though, but did put them through their paces speed wise, grade wise, curve wise, etc. etc. I DID choose BLI’s Heavy Mike over their Light as the lights were known to have some early issues.(Don’t know if BLI resolved them or not-check archived articles on tony’strains.com.
I’m finding that with 30" maximum radius that the Big Boys and Challengers can look fine with the minimal (to me) overhang provided that I “artistically” plan scenicing elements like tree placement, building corners, etc. My entire layout is onlyy 8’X17’ but it was specifically designed with running a Big Boy and Challenger in mind with 3" track separation and a mind to where I might have to hide overhangs (24" radius drill track, etc.) I feel that large articulateds can be made to look good (relative term) provided that the visual aspects of running these locos are taken into careful consideration at the design/building stage of the smaller layout. I do feel that 24" is the minimum radius to keep things from looking too toy like.
The Rivarossis are not nearly as detailed as the Athearn Genesis. I agree that Rivarossi(s) at bargain prices are still nice locos and have a 20 yr. old Cab Forward now DCCed thanks to a good friend. I intend adding some pick up shoes/strips eventually as it will hesitate at one #5 turn out. It was years and years of seeing AHM’s full page ads as a teen that made me “vow” to build a small/medium sized layout that would allow them to run and look “ok”. It’s downright stupid in my opinion that the newest Rivarossi B.B.s STILL have inadequate electrical pick up! That’s no way to stay competitive.
I agree that anything less than 24" is a bit toy-like with big power–and is risking problems.
At 26.375" radius (Kato track), the full length passenger cars look ok and operate very well for me–but some passenger cars do not do so well at 24" radius (regardless of what the manufacturers say).
My layout was also designed for decent sized steam power. I wish I’d have gone just a little bigger, though, as there are brass engines that will not be able to run on it. Not a problem now, as I don’t have a brass budget, but maybe someday I might once again.
